From ben at diversity.net.nz Wed Oct 19 09:37:01 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Wed Oct 19 09:37:28 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky Message-ID: Hey there trying to get sky on to our social room and the f$#kers are trying to charge us commercial rates. Anyone dealt with this before? Any way around it? cheers b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz From darren at darrenwright.com Wed Oct 19 09:50:14 2011 From: darren at darrenwright.com (Darren) Date: Wed Oct 19 09:50:21 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D585F78FE4A403BA42217FFB8DAC822@office> Hi Ben, There is no way round this as they deem the station to be a commercial site. Email me off line at darren@darrenwright.com Regards Darren Wright Ph: 021 511 325 -----Original Message----- From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Ben Kepes Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 9:37 a.m. To: VollyNet Subject: [VollyNet] Sky VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hey there trying to get sky on to our social room and the f$#kers are trying to charge us commercial rates. Anyone dealt with this before? Any way around it? cheers b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ed at hintz.org Wed Oct 19 09:59:07 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Wed Oct 19 09:59:20 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <0D585F78FE4A403BA42217FFB8DAC822@office> References: <0D585F78FE4A403BA42217FFB8DAC822@office> Message-ID: <4E9DE89B.7090802@hintz.org> On 10/19/11 9:50 AM, Darren wrote: > There is no way round this as they deem the station to be a commercial site. This. We decided that 8-900/yr for Sky was a waste, and ditched it. Freeview all the way now. Screw the greedy bastards. There's always the theoretical somebody-brings-the-decoder-from-home thing, but I don't think it's actually happened yet. Just as well as it's probably against Sky terms. It's easier to just move the party to whoever-has-sky's-house, and that's whats been happening for the last 9mos since we ditched 'em. -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From ben at diversity.net.nz Wed Oct 19 10:03:54 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Wed Oct 19 10:04:12 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <4E9DE89B.7090802@hintz.org> References: <0D585F78FE4A403BA42217FFB8DAC822@office> <4E9DE89B.7090802@hintz.org> Message-ID: thanks ed the joys of monopolies huh? b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Edmund Hintz wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > On 10/19/11 9:50 AM, Darren wrote: > > > There is no way round this as they deem the station to be a commercial > site. > > This. > > We decided that 8-900/yr for Sky was a waste, and ditched it. Freeview > all the way now. Screw the greedy bastards. > > There's always the theoretical somebody-brings-the-decoder-from-home > thing, but I don't think it's actually happened yet. Just as well as > it's probably against Sky terms. It's easier to just move the party to > whoever-has-sky's-house, and that's whats been happening for the last > 9mos since we ditched 'em. > > -- > Regards, > > Ed Hintz > ed@hintz.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From tds_4 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 19 10:12:50 2011 From: tds_4 at hotmail.com (Tristan Saunders) Date: Wed Oct 19 10:13:06 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: , <0D585F78FE4A403BA42217FFB8DAC822@office>, <4E9DE89B.7090802@hintz.org>, Message-ID: I think it depends on who you deal with. We went through this in Auckland when stations tried to change over to mysky. But they have since dropped this thinking and we don't pay commercial rates.. Unsure what the method to achieve this was tho as I wasn't the achiever.. > Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 14:03:54 -0700 > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > From: ben@diversity.net.nz > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > thanks ed > > the joys of monopolies huh? > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Edmund Hintz wrote: > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > On 10/19/11 9:50 AM, Darren wrote: > > > > > There is no way round this as they deem the station to be a commercial > > site. > > > > This. > > > > We decided that 8-900/yr for Sky was a waste, and ditched it. Freeview > > all the way now. Screw the greedy bastards. > > > > There's always the theoretical somebody-brings-the-decoder-from-home > > thing, but I don't think it's actually happened yet. Just as well as > > it's probably against Sky terms. It's easier to just move the party to > > whoever-has-sky's-house, and that's whats been happening for the last > > 9mos since we ditched 'em. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Ed Hintz > > ed@hintz.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ed at hintz.org Wed Oct 19 10:13:27 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Wed Oct 19 10:13:35 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: <0D585F78FE4A403BA42217FFB8DAC822@office> <4E9DE89B.7090802@hintz.org> Message-ID: <4E9DEBF7.7040505@hintz.org> On 10/19/11 10:03 AM, Ben Kepes wrote: > the joys of monopolies huh? Amen. I've been on Freeview for about 4 years now, never looked back. Have a Mythbuntu setup with a Hauppage WinTV card, works a charm. Quite frankly, with the rates Sky charges, I'd rather pirate an Aussie signal than pay those idiots. If I could buy an Aussie feed legally I'd be first in line. Since I can't I just stick with Freeview and my Slingbox to placeshift the US feed. -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From ed at hintz.org Wed Oct 19 10:15:25 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Wed Oct 19 10:15:34 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: , <0D585F78FE4A403BA42217FFB8DAC822@office>, <4E9DE89B.7090802@hintz.org>, Message-ID: <4E9DEC6D.10203@hintz.org> On 10/19/11 10:12 AM, Tristan Saunders wrote: > I think it depends on who you deal with. We went through this in Auckland when stations tried to change over to mysky. But they have since dropped this thinking and we don't pay commercial rates.. Unsure what the method to achieve this was tho as I wasn't the achiever.. I think that it's a nudge nudge wink wink sort of deal. Rego as a person rather than brigade or that sort of thing. Quite possibly achievable somewhat legitimately if you can find a sympathetic Sky rep. Not that I care. Even at residential rates I think they're an utter ripoff. -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From j.vermey at xtra.co.nz Wed Oct 19 10:47:13 2011 From: j.vermey at xtra.co.nz (J & L Vermey) Date: Wed Oct 19 10:47:44 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> Hi, The easy way around this is to get someone how has already sky to have multi room installed then remove the decoder from his house and hook it up to the dish at the station and you have sky. pay the person the $25.00 a month for the multi room and everyone is happy. You will have the same package as the person who has the multi room installed. you might have to buy a dish or hook it up to the free view dish if you have one. Hope this helps. John On 19/10/2011 09:37, Ben Kepes wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Hey there > > trying to get sky on to our social room and the f$#kers are trying to charge > us commercial rates. Anyone dealt with this before? Any way around it? > > cheers > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From ben at diversity.net.nz Wed Oct 19 11:01:35 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Wed Oct 19 11:01:55 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: thanks everyone -= some enlightening answers there! b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 2:47 PM, J & L Vermey wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- > Hi, > > The easy way around this is to get someone how has already sky to have > multi room installed then remove the decoder from his house and hook it up > to the dish at the station and you have sky. pay the person the $25.00 a > month for the multi room and everyone is happy. > You will have the same package as the person who has the multi room > installed. > you might have to buy a dish or hook it up to the free view dish if you > have one. > > > Hope this helps. > > John > > > > > > On 19/10/2011 09:37, Ben Kepes wrote: > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- >> Hey there >> >> trying to get sky on to our social room and the f$#kers are trying to >> charge >> us commercial rates. Anyone dealt with this before? Any way around it? >> >> cheers >> >> b >> >> >> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited >> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 >> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes >> > >> web www.diversity.net.nz >> > >> >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> >> > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From adam.knezovic at yahoo.co.nz Wed Oct 19 11:09:16 2011 From: adam.knezovic at yahoo.co.nz (Adam Knezovic) Date: Wed Oct 19 11:09:35 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <005701cc8de2$94c908b0$be5b1a10$@yahoo.co.nz> Yeah but Ben, don't print it in your column and accuse firefighters of ripping the system off either...... (just jokin) Thanks and regards -----Original Message----- From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Ben Kepes Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 11:02 a.m. To: VollyNet Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- thanks everyone -= some enlightening answers there! b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 2:47 PM, J & L Vermey wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For > information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- > Hi, > > The easy way around this is to get someone how has already sky to have > multi room installed then remove the decoder from his house and hook > it up to the dish at the station and you have sky. pay the person the > $25.00 a month for the multi room and everyone is happy. > You will have the same package as the person who has the multi room > installed. > you might have to buy a dish or hook it up to the free view dish if > you have one. > > > Hope this helps. > > John > > > > > > On 19/10/2011 09:37, Ben Kepes wrote: > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For >> information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- >> Hey there >> >> trying to get sky on to our social room and the f$#kers are trying to >> charge us commercial rates. Anyone dealt with this before? Any way >> around it? >> >> cheers >> >> b >> >> >> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited >> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 >> skype ben_kepes | twitter >> @benkepes >> > >> web >> www.diversity.net.nz> nz/> >> > >> >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal >> opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> >> > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal > opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ben at diversity.net.nz Wed Oct 19 11:12:54 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Wed Oct 19 11:13:12 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <005701cc8de2$94c908b0$be5b1a10$@yahoo.co.nz> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <005701cc8de2$94c908b0$be5b1a10$@yahoo.co.nz> Message-ID: awwwww - I was planning on doing an expose ;-) b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Adam Knezovic wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah but Ben, don't print it in your column and accuse firefighters of > ripping the system off either...... > > (just jokin) > > > Thanks and regards > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz > [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Ben Kepes > Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 11:02 a.m. > To: VollyNet > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For > information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > thanks everyone -= some enlightening answers there! > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web > www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 2:47 PM, J & L Vermey wrote: > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For > > information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- > > Hi, > > > > The easy way around this is to get someone how has already sky to have > > multi room installed then remove the decoder from his house and hook > > it up to the dish at the station and you have sky. pay the person the > > $25.00 a month for the multi room and everyone is happy. > > You will have the same package as the person who has the multi room > > installed. > > you might have to buy a dish or hook it up to the free view dish if > > you have one. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > On 19/10/2011 09:37, Ben Kepes wrote: > > > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For > >> information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- > >> Hey there > >> > >> trying to get sky on to our social room and the f$#kers are trying to > >> charge us commercial rates. Anyone dealt with this before? Any way > >> around it? > >> > >> cheers > >> > >> b > >> > >> > >> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > >> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > >> skype ben_kepes | twitter > >> @benkepes > >> > > >> web > >> www.diversity.net.nz >> nz/> > >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal > >> opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > >> > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal > > opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion > only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From j.vermey at xtra.co.nz Wed Oct 19 11:27:49 2011 From: j.vermey at xtra.co.nz (J & L Vermey) Date: Wed Oct 19 11:28:08 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E9DFD65.5040205@xtra.co.nz> (this is the second time I try this, as the first email seems to gotten lost) Hi, The easy way around this is to get someone how has already sky to have multi room installed then remove the decoder from his house and hook it up to the dish at the station and you have sky. pay the person the $25.00 a month for the multi room and everyone is happy. You will have the same package as the person who has the multi room installed. you might have to buy a dish or hook it up to the free view dish if you have one. Hope this helps. John On 19/10/2011 09:37, Ben Kepes wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Hey there > > trying to get sky on to our social room and the f$#kers are trying to charge > us commercial rates. Anyone dealt with this before? Any way around it? > > cheers > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From ed at hintz.org Wed Oct 19 11:28:09 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Wed Oct 19 11:28:28 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> On 10/19/11 10:47 AM, J & L Vermey wrote: > The easy way around this is to get someone how has already sky to have > multi room installed then remove the decoder from his house and hook it > up to the dish at the station and you have sky. pay the person the > $25.00 a month for the multi room and everyone is happy. > You will have the same package as the person who has the multi room > installed. > you might have to buy a dish or hook it up to the free view dish if you > have one. Easy-yes. Legit-no. :) Multi-room is, as I understand, contractually limited to a single physical residence (you're not even allowed to do it to light up your holiday bach or your caravan-greedy bastards want a full price sub for that). Of course, it's basically impossible for them to catch you out unless somebody narcs on you, but that's not the point. Quite frankly, if I want to do something outside the bounds of law, I'd be looking at doing a similar thing with a pal in Aussie. Get a multi-room style setup from somebody over there (on one of the sats we can see, of course) and you'll get a whole lot more for your money. If you fish around on trademe you can discreetly buy cloned Aussie cards too, so on the off chance you don't have an Aussie pal to leech on it's still doable. If I didn't have my US feed I'd probably do this. Or maybe just stick with Bittorrent. Perfect example of Sky pricing it so high that they push toward illegal/dodgy solutions. Our decision as a brigade tho was that any appearance of impropriety was undesirable, so we chose to stick with Freeview at the station. -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From ben at diversity.net.nz Wed Oct 19 11:30:36 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Wed Oct 19 11:30:54 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> Message-ID: impropriety? Within a fire brigade? never ;-) b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Edmund Hintz wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > On 10/19/11 10:47 AM, J & L Vermey wrote: > > > The easy way around this is to get someone how has already sky to have > > multi room installed then remove the decoder from his house and hook it > > up to the dish at the station and you have sky. pay the person the > > $25.00 a month for the multi room and everyone is happy. > > You will have the same package as the person who has the multi room > > installed. > > you might have to buy a dish or hook it up to the free view dish if you > > have one. > > Easy-yes. Legit-no. :) Multi-room is, as I understand, contractually > limited to a single physical residence (you're not even allowed to do it > to light up your holiday bach or your caravan-greedy bastards want a > full price sub for that). Of course, it's basically impossible for them > to catch you out unless somebody narcs on you, but that's not the point. > > Quite frankly, if I want to do something outside the bounds of law, I'd > be looking at doing a similar thing with a pal in Aussie. Get a > multi-room style setup from somebody over there (on one of the sats we > can see, of course) and you'll get a whole lot more for your money. If > you fish around on trademe you can discreetly buy cloned Aussie cards > too, so on the off chance you don't have an Aussie pal to leech on it's > still doable. If I didn't have my US feed I'd probably do this. Or maybe > just stick with Bittorrent. Perfect example of Sky pricing it so high > that they push toward illegal/dodgy solutions. > > Our decision as a brigade tho was that any appearance of impropriety was > undesirable, so we chose to stick with Freeview at the station. > > -- > Regards, > > Ed Hintz > ed@hintz.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From adam.knezovic at yahoo.co.nz Wed Oct 19 11:37:01 2011 From: adam.knezovic at yahoo.co.nz (Adam Knezovic) Date: Wed Oct 19 11:37:19 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <4E9DFD65.5040205@xtra.co.nz> References: <4E9DFD65.5040205@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <006001cc8de6$75df8880$619e9980$@yahoo.co.nz> Nope, it came through fine John. Thanks and regards -----Original Message----- From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of J & L Vermey Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 11:28 a.m. To: VollyNet Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- (this is the second time I try this, as the first email seems to gotten lost) Hi, The easy way around this is to get someone how has already sky to have multi room installed then remove the decoder from his house and hook it up to the dish at the station and you have sky. pay the person the $25.00 a month for the multi room and everyone is happy. You will have the same package as the person who has the multi room installed. you might have to buy a dish or hook it up to the free view dish if you have one. Hope this helps. John On 19/10/2011 09:37, Ben Kepes wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For > information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Hey there > > trying to get sky on to our social room and the f$#kers are trying to > charge us commercial rates. Anyone dealt with this before? Any way around it? > > cheers > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal > opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ed at hintz.org Wed Oct 19 11:43:09 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Wed Oct 19 11:43:21 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> Message-ID: <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> On 10/19/11 11:30 AM, Ben Kepes wrote: > impropriety? Within a fire brigade? never > > ;-) When it makes it into the minutes of an AGM it could be a bit of a worry. We're trying to take that most-trusted thing seriously and not get into any scandals, particularly ones of a technically fraudulent nature. :) -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From tds_4 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 19 14:50:39 2011 From: tds_4 at hotmail.com (Tristan Saunders) Date: Wed Oct 19 14:50:54 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <4E9DFD65.5040205@xtra.co.nz> References: , <4E9DFD65.5040205@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: I think this would be dangerous ground to be getting into. SkyTV wouldnt look very favourable on that if they found out. Giving the sky rep an education regarding a fire station would be helpful. Not commercial and doesnt make any money off the use of their services.. > Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 11:27:49 +1300 > From: j.vermey@xtra.co.nz > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > (this is the second time I try this, as the first email seems to gotten > lost) > > Hi, > > The easy way around this is to get someone how has already sky to have > multi room installed then remove the decoder from his house and hook it > up to the dish at the station and you have sky. pay the person the > $25.00 a month for the multi room and everyone is happy. > You will have the same package as the person who has the multi room > installed. > you might have to buy a dish or hook it up to the free view dish if you > have one. > > > Hope this helps. > > John > > > > On 19/10/2011 09:37, Ben Kepes wrote: > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hey there > > > > trying to get sky on to our social room and the f$#kers are trying to charge > > us commercial rates. Anyone dealt with this before? Any way around it? > > > > cheers > > > > b > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ben at diversity.net.nz Wed Oct 19 14:52:28 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Wed Oct 19 14:52:45 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: <4E9DFD65.5040205@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: i tried explaining that and pointing out that the term "commercial" is diametrically opposed to what vollie brigades do their response? "meh" f$#kers b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Tristan Saunders wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > I think this would be dangerous ground to be getting into. SkyTV wouldnt > look very favourable on that if they found out. > Giving the sky rep an education regarding a fire station would be helpful. > Not commercial and doesnt make any money off the use of their services.. > > > Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 11:27:49 +1300 > > From: j.vermey@xtra.co.nz > > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > (this is the second time I try this, as the first email seems to gotten > > lost) > > > > Hi, > > > > The easy way around this is to get someone how has already sky to have > > multi room installed then remove the decoder from his house and hook it > > up to the dish at the station and you have sky. pay the person the > > $25.00 a month for the multi room and everyone is happy. > > You will have the same package as the person who has the multi room > > installed. > > you might have to buy a dish or hook it up to the free view dish if you > > have one. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > John > > > > > > > > On 19/10/2011 09:37, Ben Kepes wrote: > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Hey there > > > > > > trying to get sky on to our social room and the f$#kers are trying to > charge > > > us commercial rates. Anyone dealt with this before? Any way around it? > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > b > > > > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From ed at hintz.org Wed Oct 19 14:57:01 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Wed Oct 19 14:57:10 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: <4E9DFD65.5040205@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <4E9E2E6D.7090705@hintz.org> On 10/19/11 2:52 PM, Ben Kepes wrote: > i tried explaining that and pointing out that the term "commercial" is > diametrically opposed to what vollie brigades do > > their response? "meh" > > f$#kers As opposed to "meh", I'd have thought they'd be likely to respond with "but these go to eleven!"... -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From matt at p00le.net Wed Oct 19 15:02:09 2011 From: matt at p00le.net (Matthew Poole) Date: Wed Oct 19 15:02:21 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> Message-ID: <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> What Ed said. Trying to find ways around Sky's terms of service is to have the entire brigade colluding in a criminal act: fraud. You wouldn't all go down to the local TV shop and steal their merchandise, would you? I, personally, object strongly to Sky's dominance in the market, and consider it an abject failure by consecutive governments that the situation has been allowed to arise and continue. However, that doesn't make it right for me to be party to fraud in order to get their service. The place of fire fighters in the nation's hierarchy of trust would make such activities by a fire brigade a very serious breach indeed. It's not just breaching Sky's terms, it's criminal misuse of a document for financial gain. Just something for people to think about. On 19/10/11 11:43, Edmund Hintz wrote: > We're trying to take that most-trusted thing seriously and not get > into any scandals, particularly ones of a technically fraudulent > nature. :) > -- Matthew Poole "The difference between theory and practice is that practice is much easier in theory than theory is in practice." From danniglenn at vodafone.co.nz Wed Oct 19 15:18:46 2011 From: danniglenn at vodafone.co.nz (Danicia & Glenn Manning) Date: Wed Oct 19 15:19:02 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> Message-ID: <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of shit that one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a dump... Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and watching it at the station at a later date -----Original Message----- From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Matthew Poole Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 3:02 p.m. To: VollyNet Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- What Ed said. Trying to find ways around Sky's terms of service is to have the entire brigade colluding in a criminal act: fraud. You wouldn't all go down to the local TV shop and steal their merchandise, would you? I, personally, object strongly to Sky's dominance in the market, and consider it an abject failure by consecutive governments that the situation has been allowed to arise and continue. However, that doesn't make it right for me to be party to fraud in order to get their service. The place of fire fighters in the nation's hierarchy of trust would make such activities by a fire brigade a very serious breach indeed. It's not just breaching Sky's terms, it's criminal misuse of a document for financial gain. Just something for people to think about. On 19/10/11 11:43, Edmund Hintz wrote: > We're trying to take that most-trusted thing seriously and not get > into any scandals, particularly ones of a technically fraudulent > nature. :) > -- Matthew Poole "The difference between theory and practice is that practice is much easier in theory than theory is in practice." ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From stantonfield at clear.net.nz Wed Oct 19 15:28:00 2011 From: stantonfield at clear.net.nz (stantonfield) Date: Wed Oct 19 15:28:07 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> Message-ID: You didnt get the matching colour chart to go alongside the #1sies one in the toilet then?;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danicia & Glenn Manning" To: "'VollyNet'" Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 3:18 PM Subject: RE: [VollyNet] Sky > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of shit > that > one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a dump... > Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and > watching it at the station at a later date > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz > [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Matthew Poole > Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 3:02 p.m. > To: VollyNet > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > What Ed said. Trying to find ways around Sky's terms of service is to > have the entire brigade colluding in a criminal act: fraud. You wouldn't > all go down to the local TV shop and steal their merchandise, would you? > I, personally, object strongly to Sky's dominance in the market, and > consider it an abject failure by consecutive governments that the > situation has been allowed to arise and continue. However, that doesn't > make it right for me to be party to fraud in order to get their service. > The place of fire fighters in the nation's hierarchy of trust would make > such activities by a fire brigade a very serious breach indeed. It's not > just breaching Sky's terms, it's criminal misuse of a document for > financial gain. > > Just something for people to think about. > > On 19/10/11 11:43, Edmund Hintz wrote: > >> We're trying to take that most-trusted thing seriously and not get >> into any scandals, particularly ones of a technically fraudulent >> nature. :) >> > > -- > Matthew Poole > "The difference between theory and practice is that practice is much > easier in theory than theory is in practice." > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3125 - Release Date: 09/09/10 18:34:00 From ben at diversity.net.nz Wed Oct 19 15:41:13 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Wed Oct 19 15:41:35 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> Message-ID: LOL - there's a generation of firefighters chuckling as they check the colour of their own urine. Straw coloured anyone? ;-) Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 7:28 PM, stantonfield wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- > You didnt get the matching colour chart to go alongside the #1sies one in > the toilet then?;-) > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danicia & Glenn Manning" < > danniglenn@vodafone.co.nz> > To: "'VollyNet'" > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 3:18 PM > Subject: RE: [VollyNet] Sky > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- >> See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of shit >> that >> one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a dump... >> Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and >> watching it at the station at a later date >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.**nz >> [mailto:vollynet-bounces@**vollynet.org.nz] >> On Behalf Of Matthew Poole >> Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 3:02 p.m. >> To: VollyNet >> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky >> >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- >> >> What Ed said. Trying to find ways around Sky's terms of service is to >> have the entire brigade colluding in a criminal act: fraud. You wouldn't >> all go down to the local TV shop and steal their merchandise, would you? >> I, personally, object strongly to Sky's dominance in the market, and >> consider it an abject failure by consecutive governments that the >> situation has been allowed to arise and continue. However, that doesn't >> make it right for me to be party to fraud in order to get their service. >> The place of fire fighters in the nation's hierarchy of trust would make >> such activities by a fire brigade a very serious breach indeed. It's not >> just breaching Sky's terms, it's criminal misuse of a document for >> financial gain. >> >> Just something for people to think about. >> >> On 19/10/11 11:43, Edmund Hintz wrote: >> >> We're trying to take that most-trusted thing seriously and not get >>> into any scandals, particularly ones of a technically fraudulent >>> nature. :) >>> >>> >> -- >> Matthew Poole >> "The difference between theory and practice is that practice is much >> easier in theory than theory is in practice." >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> > > > ------------------------------**------------------------------** > -------------------- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3125 - Release Date: 09/09/10 > 18:34:00 > > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From ed at hintz.org Wed Oct 19 15:55:08 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Wed Oct 19 15:55:20 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> Message-ID: <4E9E3C0C.8030908@hintz.org> On 10/19/11 3:18 PM, Danicia & Glenn Manning wrote: > See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of shit that > one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a dump... > Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and > watching it at the station at a later date Personally? I'm for sticking it to Sky at any and every opportunity. Greedy opportunistic monopolistic bastards. But voting at an AGM where documents are part of the OIA-able public record to do so as a brigade? Bad idea. Call it PC if you want, but who cares. If that gets into the public eye it's gonna be a shitstorm and we don't want to play that game. Ain't worth it. I'll bet there's a goodly lot of brigades here reading this that are either doing the 25/mo second receiver, or getting it in somebody's personal name, or otherwise bending the rules. Nudge nudge wink wink. They're prolly perfectly safe as long as nobody ever gets disgruntled and turns 'em in. But we just didn't want to risk it; a big part of this is we hardly ever used it anyway. Freeview is all good and using it will never come back to haunt us. And it saves us $900/yr that we can use for booze at pissups. Sometimes even watching rugby on Freeview instead of Sky. :) -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From aditozer at xtra.co.nz Wed Oct 19 16:51:59 2011 From: aditozer at xtra.co.nz (Ian Tozer) Date: Wed Oct 19 16:52:10 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <4E9E3C0C.8030908@hintz.org> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> <4E9E3C0C.8030908@hintz.org> Message-ID: <1318996319.36799.YahooMailNeo@web96113.mail.aue.yahoo.com> Many moons ago I was a supplier for security stuff for Sky and found out the reason for the commercial rate. ? They recieved complaints from pub owners when large sporting fixtures were on sky and "half the bloody town were sitting around the bar at the fire station drinking over there.". ? Sky decided it was unfavourable for their commercial paying customers and changed the rules for fire brigades. ? Simple really.? ? Ian ________________________________ From: Edmund Hintz To: VollyNet Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www..vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- On 10/19/11 3:18 PM, Danicia & Glenn Manning wrote: > See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of shit that > one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a dump... > Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and > watching it at the station at a later date Personally? I'm for sticking it to Sky at any and every opportunity. Greedy opportunistic monopolistic bastards. But voting at an AGM where documents are part of the OIA-able public record to do so as a brigade? Bad idea. Call it PC if you want, but who cares. If that gets into the public eye it's gonna be a shitstorm and we don't want to play that game. Ain't worth it. I'll bet there's a goodly lot of brigades here reading this that are either doing the 25/mo second receiver, or getting it in somebody's personal name, or otherwise bending the rules. Nudge nudge wink wink. They're prolly perfectly safe as long as nobody ever gets disgruntled and turns 'em in. But we just didn't want to risk it; a big part of this is we hardly ever used it anyway. Freeview is all good and using it will never come back to haunt us. And it saves us $900/yr that we can use for booze at pissups. Sometimes even watching rugby on Freeview instead of Sky. :) -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From 4kings at nettel.net.nz Wed Oct 19 17:25:59 2011 From: 4kings at nettel.net.nz (Ian & Heather King) Date: Wed Oct 19 17:26:16 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org><4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net><000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz><4E9E3C0C.8030908@hintz.org> <1318996319.36799.YahooMailNeo@web96113.mail.aue.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <38BF9BC92E54461EA3DA690B618BB9FB@SN2938977271> Mind you there have been similar complaints from pub owners in small towns, nothing to do with Sky, just the fact half the town is at the fire station drinking instead of in his pub - sour grapes in both cases that you'll never get over! ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Tozer To: VollyNet Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Many moons ago I was a supplier for security stuff for Sky and found out the reason for the commercial rate. They recieved complaints from pub owners when large sporting fixtures were on sky and "half the bloody town were sitting around the bar at the fire station drinking over there.". Sky decided it was unfavourable for their commercial paying customers and changed the rules for fire brigades. Simple really. Ian ________________________________ From: Edmund Hintz To: VollyNet Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www..vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- On 10/19/11 3:18 PM, Danicia & Glenn Manning wrote: > See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of shit that > one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a dump... > Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and > watching it at the station at a later date Personally? I'm for sticking it to Sky at any and every opportunity. Greedy opportunistic monopolistic bastards. But voting at an AGM where documents are part of the OIA-able public record to do so as a brigade? Bad idea. Call it PC if you want, but who cares. If that gets into the public eye it's gonna be a shitstorm and we don't want to play that game. Ain't worth it. I'll bet there's a goodly lot of brigades here reading this that are either doing the 25/mo second receiver, or getting it in somebody's personal name, or otherwise bending the rules. Nudge nudge wink wink. They're prolly perfectly safe as long as nobody ever gets disgruntled and turns 'em in. But we just didn't want to risk it; a big part of this is we hardly ever used it anyway. Freeview is all good and using it will never come back to haunt us. And it saves us $900/yr that we can use for booze at pissups. Sometimes even watching rugby on Freeview instead of Sky. :) -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ben at diversity.net.nz Wed Oct 19 17:32:45 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Wed Oct 19 17:33:05 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <38BF9BC92E54461EA3DA690B618BB9FB@SN2938977271> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> <4E9E3C0C.8030908@hintz.org> <1318996319.36799.YahooMailNeo@web96113.mail.aue.yahoo.com> <38BF9BC92E54461EA3DA690B618BB9FB@SN2938977271> Message-ID: Well maybe if the country pubs weren't full of half pissed old skeletons propping up the bar and nursing one pint all night and talking about how "those bloody townies don't have a clue" then said publicans would enjoy more local custom. Of course perhaps if some fire stations weren't full of half pissed old skeletons propping up the bar and nursing one pint all night and talking about how "those bloody townies don't have a clue" then said stations would find it easier to attract and retain members But maybe I'm a little jaded ;-) b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Ian & Heather King <4kings@nettel.net.nz>wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Mind you there have been similar complaints from pub owners in small towns, > nothing to do with Sky, just the fact half the town is at the fire station > drinking instead of in his pub - sour grapes in both cases that you'll never > get over! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ian Tozer > To: VollyNet > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:51 PM > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Many moons ago I was a supplier for security stuff for Sky and found out > the reason for the commercial rate. > > They recieved complaints from pub owners when large sporting fixtures were > on sky and "half the bloody town were sitting around the bar at the fire > station drinking over there.". > > Sky decided it was unfavourable for their commercial paying customers and > changed the rules for fire brigades. > > Simple really. > > Ian > > > ________________________________ > From: Edmund Hintz > To: VollyNet > Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 3:55 PM > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www..vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > On 10/19/11 3:18 PM, Danicia & Glenn Manning wrote: > > > See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of shit > that > > one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a dump... > > Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and > > watching it at the station at a later date > > Personally? I'm for sticking it to Sky at any and every opportunity. > Greedy opportunistic monopolistic bastards. But voting at an AGM where > documents are part of the OIA-able public record to do so as a brigade? > Bad idea. Call it PC if you want, but who cares. If that gets into the > public eye it's gonna be a shitstorm and we don't want to play that > game. Ain't worth it. > > I'll bet there's a goodly lot of brigades here reading this that are > either doing the 25/mo second receiver, or getting it in somebody's > personal name, or otherwise bending the rules. Nudge nudge wink wink. > They're prolly perfectly safe as long as nobody ever gets disgruntled > and turns 'em in. But we just didn't want to risk it; a big part of this > is we hardly ever used it anyway. Freeview is all good and using it will > never come back to haunt us. And it saves us $900/yr that we can use for > booze at pissups. Sometimes even watching rugby on Freeview instead of > Sky. :) > > -- > Regards, > > Ed Hintz > ed@hintz.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From gumboot412 at yahoo.co.nz Wed Oct 19 17:40:00 2011 From: gumboot412 at yahoo.co.nz (George M.) Date: Wed Oct 19 17:40:14 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> <4E9E3C0C.8030908@hintz.org> <1318996319.36799.YahooMailNeo@web96113.mail.aue.yahoo.com> <38BF9BC92E54461EA3DA690B618BB9FB@SN2938977271> Message-ID: <1318999200.39871.YahooMailNeo@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hahaha, I'm usually loathe to post one line replies but that was gold. -GM ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Kepes To: VollyNet Cc: Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Well maybe if the country pubs weren't full of half pissed old skeletons propping up the bar and nursing one pint all night and talking about how "those bloody townies don't have a clue" then said publicans would enjoy more local custom. Of course perhaps if some fire stations weren't full of half pissed old skeletons propping up the bar and nursing one pint all night and talking about how "those bloody townies don't have a clue" then said stations would find it easier to attract and retain members But maybe I'm a little jaded ;-) b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz? |? P +64 3 3146006? |? M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes? |? twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Ian & Heather King <4kings@nettel.net.nz>wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Mind you there have been similar complaints from pub owners in small towns, > nothing to do with Sky, just the fact half the town is at the fire station > drinking instead of in his pub - sour grapes in both cases that you'll never > get over! >? ----- Original Message ----- >? From: Ian Tozer >? To: VollyNet >? Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:51 PM >? Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > > >? VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >? For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >? ---------------------------------------------------------------- >? Many moons ago I was a supplier for security stuff for Sky and found out > the reason for the commercial rate. > >? They recieved complaints from pub owners when large sporting fixtures were > on sky and "half the bloody town were sitting around the bar at the fire > station drinking over there.". > >? Sky decided it was unfavourable for their commercial paying customers and > changed the rules for fire brigades. > >? Simple really. > >? Ian > > >? ________________________________ >? From: Edmund Hintz >? To: VollyNet >? Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 3:55 PM >? Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > >? VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >? For information and help see www..vollynet.org.nz >? ---------------------------------------------------------------- >? On 10/19/11 3:18 PM, Danicia & Glenn Manning wrote: > >? > See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of shit > that >? > one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a dump... >? > Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and >? > watching it at the station at a later date > >? Personally? I'm for sticking it to Sky at any and every opportunity. >? Greedy opportunistic monopolistic bastards. But voting at an AGM where >? documents are part of the OIA-able public record to do so as a brigade? >? Bad idea. Call it PC if you want, but who cares. If that gets into the >? public eye it's gonna be a shitstorm and we don't want to play that >? game. Ain't worth it. > >? I'll bet there's a goodly lot of brigades here reading this that are >? either doing the 25/mo second receiver, or getting it in somebody's >? personal name, or otherwise bending the rules. Nudge nudge wink wink. >? They're prolly perfectly safe as long as nobody ever gets disgruntled >? and turns 'em in. But we just didn't want to risk it; a big part of this >? is we hardly ever used it anyway. Freeview is all good and using it will >? never come back to haunt us. And it saves us $900/yr that we can use for >? booze at pissups. Sometimes even watching rugby on Freeview instead of >? Sky. :) > >? -- >? Regards, > >? Ed Hintz >? ed@hintz.org >? ---------------------------------------------------------------- >? MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >? ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >? personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >? ---------------------------------------------------------------- >? MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >? ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >? personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ben at diversity.net.nz Wed Oct 19 17:42:21 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Wed Oct 19 17:42:36 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <1318999200.39871.YahooMailNeo@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> <4E9E3C0C.8030908@hintz.org> <1318996319.36799.YahooMailNeo@web96113.mail.aue.yahoo.com> <38BF9BC92E54461EA3DA690B618BB9FB@SN2938977271> <1318999200.39871.YahooMailNeo@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: thanks GM there's more where that came from! Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:40 PM, George M. wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Hahaha, I'm usually loathe to post one line replies but that was gold. > > -GM > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ben Kepes > To: VollyNet > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 5:32 PM > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Well maybe if the country pubs weren't full of half pissed old skeletons > propping up the bar and nursing one pint all night and talking about how > "those bloody townies don't have a clue" then said publicans would enjoy > more local custom. > > Of course perhaps if some fire stations weren't full of half pissed old > skeletons propping up the bar and nursing one pint all night and talking > about how "those bloody townies don't have a clue" then said stations would > find it easier to attract and retain members > > But maybe I'm a little jaded > > ;-) > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Ian & Heather King <4kings@nettel.net.nz > >wrote: > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Mind you there have been similar complaints from pub owners in small > towns, > > nothing to do with Sky, just the fact half the town is at the fire > station > > drinking instead of in his pub - sour grapes in both cases that you'll > never > > get over! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ian Tozer > > To: VollyNet > > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:51 PM > > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > > > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Many moons ago I was a supplier for security stuff for Sky and found out > > the reason for the commercial rate. > > > > They recieved complaints from pub owners when large sporting fixtures > were > > on sky and "half the bloody town were sitting around the bar at the fire > > station drinking over there.". > > > > Sky decided it was unfavourable for their commercial paying customers > and > > changed the rules for fire brigades. > > > > Simple really. > > > > Ian > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Edmund Hintz > > To: VollyNet > > Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2011 3:55 PM > > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Sky > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www..vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > On 10/19/11 3:18 PM, Danicia & Glenn Manning wrote: > > > > > See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of > shit > > that > > > one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a > dump... > > > Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and > > > watching it at the station at a later date > > > > Personally? I'm for sticking it to Sky at any and every opportunity. > > Greedy opportunistic monopolistic bastards. But voting at an AGM where > > documents are part of the OIA-able public record to do so as a brigade? > > Bad idea. Call it PC if you want, but who cares. If that gets into the > > public eye it's gonna be a shitstorm and we don't want to play that > > game. Ain't worth it. > > > > I'll bet there's a goodly lot of brigades here reading this that are > > either doing the 25/mo second receiver, or getting it in somebody's > > personal name, or otherwise bending the rules. Nudge nudge wink wink. > > They're prolly perfectly safe as long as nobody ever gets disgruntled > > and turns 'em in. But we just didn't want to risk it; a big part of this > > is we hardly ever used it anyway. Freeview is all good and using it will > > never come back to haunt us. And it saves us $900/yr that we can use for > > booze at pissups. Sometimes even watching rugby on Freeview instead of > > Sky. :) > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Ed Hintz > > ed@hintz.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From matt at p00le.net Wed Oct 19 17:44:42 2011 From: matt at p00le.net (Matthew Poole) Date: Wed Oct 19 17:44:54 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> Message-ID: <4E9E55BA.1030008@p00le.net> Well, I'm glad to have found out that not, y'know, committing fraud whilst under the auspices of the most-trusted profession in the country, is the new "politically-correct" these days. Thanks for clearing that up for me. On 19/10/11 15:18, Danicia & Glenn Manning wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of shit that > one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a dump... > Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and > watching it at the station at a later date > -- Matthew Poole "The difference between theory and practice is that practice is much easier in theory than theory is in practice." From ben at diversity.net.nz Wed Oct 19 17:48:34 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Wed Oct 19 17:48:51 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Sky In-Reply-To: <4E9E55BA.1030008@p00le.net> References: <4E9DF3E1.60507@xtra.co.nz> <4E9DFD79.9060309@hintz.org> <4E9E00FD.4050209@hintz.org> <4E9E2FA1.7080204@p00le.net> <000f01cc8e05$6f31ff30$4d95fd90$@co.nz> <4E9E55BA.1030008@p00le.net> Message-ID: fraud schmaud sky is dodgy charging non commercial entities a commercial rate, a little subterfuge to get around that is no biggie b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Matthew Poole wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Well, I'm glad to have found out that not, y'know, committing fraud > whilst under the auspices of the most-trusted profession in the country, > is the new "politically-correct" these days. Thanks for clearing that up > for me. > > On 19/10/11 15:18, Danicia & Glenn Manning wrote: > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > See the points..but really? The world is getting so PC and full of shit > that > > one day soon I reckon we will need to follow policy to go for a dump... > > Next we will be discussing piracy over someone recording the game and > > watching it at the station at a later date > > > > > -- > Matthew Poole > "The difference between theory and practice is that practice is much > easier in theory than theory is in practice." > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From kiwis1 at slingshot.co.nz Wed Oct 19 19:58:50 2011 From: kiwis1 at slingshot.co.nz (Stephen) Date: Wed Oct 19 19:58:56 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] News: Calls for RM Saunders to go - 2nd article Message-ID: <021601cc8e2c$8e7af5f0$ab70e1d0$@co.nz> http://tinyurl.com/68pnp2m From tony at sutorius.org Thu Oct 20 10:13:37 2011 From: tony at sutorius.org (Tony Sutorius) Date: Thu Oct 20 10:13:41 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation Message-ID: http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve our ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such damage is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one of those times. It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in Christchurch is still available online:- http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf T. From ben at diversity.net.nz Thu Oct 20 10:29:58 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Thu Oct 20 10:30:19 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tony for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other than industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have my 2 cents b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > > I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve our > ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > > Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such damage > is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one of > those times. > > It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even > worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > > For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > Christchurch is still available online:- > > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf > > T. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From 4kings at nettel.net.nz Thu Oct 20 11:36:20 2011 From: 4kings at nettel.net.nz (Ian & Heather King) Date: Thu Oct 20 11:36:46 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation References: Message-ID: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> Ben Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently more qualified had applied for? Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Kepes To: VollyNet Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Tony for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other than industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have my 2 cents b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > > I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve our > ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > > Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such damage > is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one of > those times. > > It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even > worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > > For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > Christchurch is still available online:- > > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf > > T. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From realtswain at clear.net.nz Thu Oct 20 11:39:39 2011 From: realtswain at clear.net.nz (Tony S) Date: Thu Oct 20 11:39:43 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> Message-ID: <003001cc8eaf$fcfd2010$f6f76030$@net.nz> Hey Ian, don't think his mate was from Kaiapoi, try a little further up the line...... -----Original Message----- From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Ian & Heather King Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 11:36 a.m. To: VollyNet Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently more qualified had applied for? Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Kepes To: VollyNet Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Tony for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other than industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have my 2 cents b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > > I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve our > ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > > Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such damage > is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one of > those times. > > It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even > worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > > For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > Christchurch is still available online:- > > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report. pdf > > T. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From tony at sutorius.org Thu Oct 20 11:51:33 2011 From: tony at sutorius.org (Tony Sutorius) Date: Thu Oct 20 11:51:37 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> Message-ID: <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> Ian, There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about the NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be quite unforgivable. In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU president implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two hours was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in that time. How will their relatives feel? If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has been badly dishonoured by it. T. On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Ben > Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently more qualified had applied for? > Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ben Kepes > To: VollyNet > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Tony > > for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other than > industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand > and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > > my 2 cents > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 >> >> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the >> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial >> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve our >> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. >> >> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such damage >> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one of >> those times. >> >> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even >> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. >> >> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in >> Christchurch is still available online:- >> >> >> http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf >> >> T. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ben at diversity.net.nz Thu Oct 20 11:52:55 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Thu Oct 20 11:53:19 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> Message-ID: His mate was from Rangiora not Kaiapoi and as someone who has dealt with said mate for a number of years now I can honestly say that I can't imagine anyone who would be better at the AM job Regardless of the fact that he hasn't been paying NZPFU dues for a gazillion years We need to move away from this attitude of "he's been here the longest, he deserves the promotion" which is militaristic BS and doesn't give us the best people in the most appropriate roles b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Ian & Heather King <4kings@nettel.net.nz>wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Ben > Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was > made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed > his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently > more qualified had applied for? > Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ben Kepes > To: VollyNet > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Tony > > for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other than > industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand > and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > > my 2 cents > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > > > > I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > > resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > > earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve > our > > ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > > > > Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > damage > > is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is > one of > > those times. > > > > It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even > > worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > > > > For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > > Christchurch is still available online:- > > > > > > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf > > > > T. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From ben at diversity.net.nz Thu Oct 20 11:54:35 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Thu Oct 20 11:54:52 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> Message-ID: Of course it's freaking insincere The same way that if a (for example) house is lost by Vollie firefighters it's an example of how crap vollies are. But if the permanents lose a house (or, heaven forbid, screw up and lose crew members) it's somehow the fault of the NZFS for not paying them enough Bloody unions b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Ian, > > There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about the > NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? > > If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful > national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be quite > unforgivable. > > In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU president > implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two hours > was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in that > time. How will their relatives feel? > > If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has > been badly dishonoured by it. > > T. > > On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> > wrote: > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ben > > Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was > made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed > his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently > more qualified had applied for? > > Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ben Kepes > > To: VollyNet > > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Tony > > > > for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other > than > > industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its > hand > > and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > > > > my 2 cents > > > > b > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius > wrote: > > > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > >> > >> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > >> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > >> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve > our > >> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > >> > >> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > damage > >> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is > one of > >> those times. > >> > >> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even > >> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > >> > >> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > >> Christchurch is still available online:- > >> > >> > >> > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf > >> > >> T. > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From 4kings at nettel.net.nz Thu Oct 20 12:09:29 2011 From: 4kings at nettel.net.nz (Ian & Heather King) Date: Thu Oct 20 12:09:44 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <003001cc8eaf$fcfd2010$f6f76030$@net.nz> Message-ID: Yeah sorry, wrong town. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony S To: 'VollyNet' Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:39 AM Subject: RE: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hey Ian, don't think his mate was from Kaiapoi, try a little further up the line...... -----Original Message----- From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Ian & Heather King Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 11:36 a.m. To: VollyNet Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently more qualified had applied for? Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Kepes To: VollyNet Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Tony for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other than industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have my 2 cents b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > > I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve our > ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > > Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such damage > is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one of > those times. > > It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even > worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > > For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > Christchurch is still available online:- > > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report. pdf > > T. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From tony at sutorius.org Thu Oct 20 12:25:22 2011 From: tony at sutorius.org (Tony Sutorius) Date: Thu Oct 20 12:25:33 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> Message-ID: <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org> Ben, On 20/10/2011, at 11:54, Ben Kepes wrote: > But if the permanents lose a house > (or, heaven forbid, screw up and lose crew members) it's somehow the fault > of the NZFS for not paying them enough To me this is a similarly shitty thing to say. You can only be referring to Tamahere... are you sure you want to assert that it was caused by a "permanents... screwup", and that they blamed it on pay? Come on, stop it. Its completely dishonorable. > Bloody unions Bloody vollies, bloody permanents, bloody bosses, bloody blah blah blah. Reflex tribal bullshit is the opposite of thinking, and the opposite of what we need right now in the Fire Service. Most of our interests are exactly the same. Can we ALL cut this out? Criticize the specific actions and specific people or institutions that behave poorly. Broad-brush slander is just silly. T. > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Ian, >> >> There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about the >> NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? >> >> If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful >> national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be quite >> unforgivable. >> >> In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU president >> implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two hours >> was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in that >> time. How will their relatives feel? >> >> If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has >> been badly dishonoured by it. >> >> T. >> >> On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> >> wrote: >> >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Ben >>> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was >> made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed >> his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently >> more qualified had applied for? >>> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Ben Kepes >>> To: VollyNet >>> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM >>> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation >>> >>> >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Tony >>> >>> for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other >> than >>> industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its >> hand >>> and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have >>> >>> my 2 cents >>> >>> b >>> >>> >>> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited >>> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 >>> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes >>> web www.diversity.net.nz >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius >> wrote: >>> >>>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >>>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 >>>> >>>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the >>>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial >>>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve >> our >>>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. >>>> >>>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such >> damage >>>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is >> one of >>>> those times. >>>> >>>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even >>>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. >>>> >>>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in >>>> Christchurch is still available online:- >>>> >>>> >>>> >> http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf >>>> >>>> T. >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >>>> >>>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >>>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >>> >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >>> >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ben at diversity.net.nz Thu Oct 20 12:32:21 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Thu Oct 20 12:32:39 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org> Message-ID: Tony What I'm saying is that any time there is an accident/incident involving vollies, the NZPFU seems to respond almost immediately with harsh criticisms of vollies and the NZFS generally. When there is an incident/accident involving permanents, Vollies tend to respond with concern and interest to see how we can learn from the said event Agree that tribal bullshit is just that but I'd contend that we (vollies) are on the low end of the ledger when it comes to this stuff As for my comments about unions, I used to work as an Ambo in Chch, I remember sitting in the lunch room on many occasions and having the union rep (an expat pom fwiw) banging on the table and spouting on about how dodgy the bosses were. As an employer myself, I know just how counter productive union rabble rousing is, a constructive and engaged process is always preferable and (in my opinion) unions are more to blame for the fact that this doesn't exist than are the bosses... b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Ben, > > On 20/10/2011, at 11:54, Ben Kepes wrote: > > > But if the permanents lose a house > > (or, heaven forbid, screw up and lose crew members) it's somehow the > fault > > of the NZFS for not paying them enough > > To me this is a similarly shitty thing to say. You can only be referring to > Tamahere... are you sure you want to assert that it was caused by a > "permanents... screwup", and that they blamed it on pay? > > Come on, stop it. Its completely dishonorable. > > > > Bloody unions > > Bloody vollies, bloody permanents, bloody bosses, bloody blah blah blah. > Reflex tribal bullshit is the opposite of thinking, and the opposite of what > we need right now in the Fire Service. Most of our interests are exactly the > same. > > Can we ALL cut this out? Criticize the specific actions and specific people > or institutions that behave poorly. Broad-brush slander is just silly. > > T. > > > > > > > > > b > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Tony Sutorius > wrote: > > > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Ian, > >> > >> There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about > the > >> NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? > >> > >> If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful > >> national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be > quite > >> unforgivable. > >> > >> In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU > president > >> implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two > hours > >> was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in > that > >> time. How will their relatives feel? > >> > >> If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has > >> been badly dishonoured by it. > >> > >> T. > >> > >> On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> Ben > >>> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It > was > >> made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM > appointed > >> his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members > eminently > >> more qualified had applied for? > >>> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Ben Kepes > >>> To: VollyNet > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > >>> > >>> > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> Tony > >>> > >>> for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other > >> than > >>> industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its > >> hand > >>> and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > >>> > >>> my 2 cents > >>> > >>> b > >>> > >>> > >>> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > >>> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > >>> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > >>> web www.diversity.net.nz > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >>>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > >>>> > >>>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > >>>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > >>>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve > >> our > >>>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > >>>> > >>>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > >> damage > >>>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is > >> one of > >>>> those times. > >>>> > >>>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and > even > >>>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > >>>> > >>>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > >>>> Christchurch is still available online:- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf > >>>> > >>>> T. > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >>>> > >>>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >>>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >>>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >>> > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >>> > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From ed at hintz.org Thu Oct 20 12:52:06 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Thu Oct 20 12:52:24 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> Message-ID: <4E9F62A6.8040103@hintz.org> On 10/20/11 11:51 AM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be quite unforgivable. That would be almost as bad as using the resulting state of emergency to push through "anti-piracy" legislation supporting offshore media holders obsolete business models under the auspices of said emergency. Good thing our parliament didn't do that. Oh, wait. http://boingboing.net/2011/04/13/new-zealand-to-sneak.html -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From 4kings at nettel.net.nz Thu Oct 20 12:56:05 2011 From: 4kings at nettel.net.nz (Ian & Heather King) Date: Thu Oct 20 12:56:22 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271><039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org><9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org> Message-ID: <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271> Sorry Tony , Ben couldn't let this one go. So the unions are "more to blame than the bosses for the fact that a constructive and engaged process" isn't happening - spoken as a true boss from what planet I'm not sure? On all sorts of things, not pay related either, you would find just the opposite in the station I work in (as opposed to the one I volunteer in). Pretty anti-union, narrow minded view there, which is exactly what we as NZPFU members are often up against in this organisation? ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Kepes To: VollyNet Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Tony What I'm saying is that any time there is an accident/incident involving vollies, the NZPFU seems to respond almost immediately with harsh criticisms of vollies and the NZFS generally. When there is an incident/accident involving permanents, Vollies tend to respond with concern and interest to see how we can learn from the said event Agree that tribal bullshit is just that but I'd contend that we (vollies) are on the low end of the ledger when it comes to this stuff As for my comments about unions, I used to work as an Ambo in Chch, I remember sitting in the lunch room on many occasions and having the union rep (an expat pom fwiw) banging on the table and spouting on about how dodgy the bosses were. As an employer myself, I know just how counter productive union rabble rousing is, a constructive and engaged process is always preferable and (in my opinion) unions are more to blame for the fact that this doesn't exist than are the bosses... b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Ben, > > On 20/10/2011, at 11:54, Ben Kepes wrote: > > > But if the permanents lose a house > > (or, heaven forbid, screw up and lose crew members) it's somehow the > fault > > of the NZFS for not paying them enough > > To me this is a similarly shitty thing to say. You can only be referring to > Tamahere... are you sure you want to assert that it was caused by a > "permanents... screwup", and that they blamed it on pay? > > Come on, stop it. Its completely dishonorable. > > > > Bloody unions > > Bloody vollies, bloody permanents, bloody bosses, bloody blah blah blah. > Reflex tribal bullshit is the opposite of thinking, and the opposite of what > we need right now in the Fire Service. Most of our interests are exactly the > same. > > Can we ALL cut this out? Criticize the specific actions and specific people > or institutions that behave poorly. Broad-brush slander is just silly. > > T. > > > > > > > > > b > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Tony Sutorius > wrote: > > > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Ian, > >> > >> There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about > the > >> NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? > >> > >> If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful > >> national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be > quite > >> unforgivable. > >> > >> In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU > president > >> implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two > hours > >> was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in > that > >> time. How will their relatives feel? > >> > >> If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has > >> been badly dishonoured by it. > >> > >> T. > >> > >> On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> Ben > >>> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It > was > >> made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM > appointed > >> his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members > eminently > >> more qualified had applied for? > >>> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Ben Kepes > >>> To: VollyNet > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > >>> > >>> > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> Tony > >>> > >>> for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other > >> than > >>> industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its > >> hand > >>> and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > >>> > >>> my 2 cents > >>> > >>> b > >>> > >>> > >>> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > >>> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > >>> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > >>> web www.diversity.net.nz > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >>>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > >>>> > >>>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > >>>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > >>>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve > >> our > >>>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > >>>> > >>>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > >> damage > >>>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is > >> one of > >>>> those times. > >>>> > >>>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and > even > >>>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > >>>> > >>>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > >>>> Christchurch is still available online:- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf > >>>> > >>>> T. > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >>>> > >>>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >>>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >>>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >>> > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >>> > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ben at diversity.net.nz Thu Oct 20 13:02:58 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Thu Oct 20 13:03:16 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org> <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271> Message-ID: > > Ian > Thanks for the reply. I'll admit I'm not (obviously) privy to the complexities of this current dispute. However I have seen what I consider to be ill advised rabble-rousing on the part of the union. And maybe having had years of hearing "well I mean you guys are allright of course, but vollies generally, yeah, they're just not up to it" from permanents, I've got a heightened sensitivity around this. Yes I am a "boss". I employ a dozen or two workers and know that from my perspective I am 100 times more likely to have a constructive and engaged employment discussion with them directly than with some intermediary that I suspect is going to be pushing interests beyond simply those of the workers. I've also been an employee for a bunch of different sized organizations and have never had an issue that the union could help me with any better than I could resolve myself. I defer to your experience on a paid station, obviously you're seeing something different from what I am on the outside. What I would say though is that from my perspective, the union could do things to look more credible and still get their point across b > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sorry Tony , Ben couldn't let this one go. So the unions are "more to blame > than the bosses for the fact that a constructive and engaged process" isn't > happening - spoken as a true boss from what planet I'm not sure? On all > sorts of things, not pay related either, you would find just the opposite in > the station I work in (as opposed to the one I volunteer in). > Pretty anti-union, narrow minded view there, which is exactly what we as > NZPFU members are often up against in this organisation? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ben Kepes > To: VollyNet > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:32 PM > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Tony > > What I'm saying is that any time there is an accident/incident involving > vollies, the NZPFU seems to respond almost immediately with harsh > criticisms > of vollies and the NZFS generally. > > When there is an incident/accident involving permanents, Vollies tend to > respond with concern and interest to see how we can learn from the said > event > > Agree that tribal bullshit is just that but I'd contend that we (vollies) > are on the low end of the ledger when it comes to this stuff > > As for my comments about unions, I used to work as an Ambo in Chch, I > remember sitting in the lunch room on many occasions and having the union > rep (an expat pom fwiw) banging on the table and spouting on about how > dodgy > the bosses were. As an employer myself, I know just how counter productive > union rabble rousing is, a constructive and engaged process is always > preferable and (in my opinion) unions are more to blame for the fact that > this doesn't exist than are the bosses... > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ben, > > > > On 20/10/2011, at 11:54, Ben Kepes wrote: > > > > > But if the permanents lose a house > > > (or, heaven forbid, screw up and lose crew members) it's somehow the > > fault > > > of the NZFS for not paying them enough > > > > To me this is a similarly shitty thing to say. You can only be referring > to > > Tamahere... are you sure you want to assert that it was caused by a > > "permanents... screwup", and that they blamed it on pay? > > > > Come on, stop it. Its completely dishonorable. > > > > > > > Bloody unions > > > > Bloody vollies, bloody permanents, bloody bosses, bloody blah blah blah. > > Reflex tribal bullshit is the opposite of thinking, and the opposite of > what > > we need right now in the Fire Service. Most of our interests are exactly > the > > same. > > > > Can we ALL cut this out? Criticize the specific actions and specific > people > > or institutions that behave poorly. Broad-brush slander is just silly. > > > > T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b > > > > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Tony Sutorius > > wrote: > > > > > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> Ian, > > >> > > >> There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely > about > > the > > >> NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? > > >> > > >> If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful > > >> national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be > > quite > > >> unforgivable. > > >> > > >> In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU > > president > > >> implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two > > hours > > >> was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died > in > > that > > >> time. How will their relatives feel? > > >> > > >> If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service > has > > >> been badly dishonoured by it. > > >> > > >> T. > > >> > > >> On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> Ben > > >>> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. > It > > was > > >> made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM > > appointed > > >> his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members > > eminently > > >> more qualified had applied for? > > >>> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: Ben Kepes > > >>> To: VollyNet > > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > > >>> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> Tony > > >>> > > >>> for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything > other > > >> than > > >>> industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its > > >> hand > > >>> and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > > >>> > > >>> my 2 cents > > >>> > > >>> b > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > >>> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > >>> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > >>> web www.diversity.net.nz > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > >>>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > > >>>> > > >>>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for > the > > >>>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the > initial > > >>>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to > improve > > >> our > > >>>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > > >>>> > > >>>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > > >> damage > > >>>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this > is > > >> one of > > >>>> those times. > > >>>> > > >>>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and > > even > > >>>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > > >>>> > > >>>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > > >>>> Christchurch is still available online:- > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >> > > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf > > >>>> > > >>>> T. > > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > >>>> > > >>>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > >>>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > >>>> > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > >>> > > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > >>> > > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > >> > > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From hot.fire.chick at windowslive.com Thu Oct 20 14:16:15 2011 From: hot.fire.chick at windowslive.com (Kate .) Date: Thu Oct 20 14:16:34 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: References: , , <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271>, <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org>, , <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org>, , <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271>, Message-ID: Wikipedia meaning of 'professional' in regards to work. A high standard of professional ethics, behavior and work activities while carrying out one's profession (as an employee, self-employed person, career, enterprise, business, company, or partnership/associate/colleague, etc.). The professional owes a higher duty to a client, often a privilege of confidentiality, as well as a duty not to abandon the client just because he or she may not be able to pay or remunerate the professional. Often the professional is required to put the interest of the client ahead of his own interests.Reasonable work morale and motivation. Having interest and desire to do a job well as holding positive attitude towards the profession are important elements in attaining a high level of professionalism.Participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs b : having a particular profession as a permanent career c : engaged in by persons receiving financial returnAppropriate treatment of relationships with colleagues. Special respect should be demonstrated to special people and interns. An example must be set to perpetuate the attitude of one's business without doing it harm....... This is a case of sour grapes. Inaccurate accusations. The more the union post things in the media the more the public will find out about these grapes. Not a good look for the union or the 'professional' fire fighters. Kate > Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 17:02:58 -0700 > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > From: ben@diversity.net.nz > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Ian > > > > Thanks for the reply. I'll admit I'm not (obviously) privy to the > complexities of this current dispute. However I have seen what I consider to > be ill advised rabble-rousing on the part of the union. And maybe having had > years of hearing "well I mean you guys are allright of course, but vollies > generally, yeah, they're just not up to it" from permanents, I've got a > heightened sensitivity around this. > > Yes I am a "boss". I employ a dozen or two workers and know that from my > perspective I am 100 times more likely to have a constructive and engaged > employment discussion with them directly than with some intermediary that I > suspect is going to be pushing interests beyond simply those of the workers. > > I've also been an employee for a bunch of different sized organizations and > have never had an issue that the union could help me with any better than I > could resolve myself. > > I defer to your experience on a paid station, obviously you're seeing > something different from what I am on the outside. What I would say though > is that from my perspective, the union could do things to look more credible > and still get their point across > > b > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sorry Tony , Ben couldn't let this one go. So the unions are "more to blame > > than the bosses for the fact that a constructive and engaged process" isn't > > happening - spoken as a true boss from what planet I'm not sure? On all > > sorts of things, not pay related either, you would find just the opposite in > > the station I work in (as opposed to the one I volunteer in). > > Pretty anti-union, narrow minded view there, which is exactly what we as > > NZPFU members are often up against in this organisation? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ben Kepes > > To: VollyNet > > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Tony > > > > What I'm saying is that any time there is an accident/incident involving > > vollies, the NZPFU seems to respond almost immediately with harsh > > criticisms > > of vollies and the NZFS generally. > > > > When there is an incident/accident involving permanents, Vollies tend to > > respond with concern and interest to see how we can learn from the said > > event > > > > Agree that tribal bullshit is just that but I'd contend that we (vollies) > > are on the low end of the ledger when it comes to this stuff > > > > As for my comments about unions, I used to work as an Ambo in Chch, I > > remember sitting in the lunch room on many occasions and having the union > > rep (an expat pom fwiw) banging on the table and spouting on about how > > dodgy > > the bosses were. As an employer myself, I know just how counter productive > > union rabble rousing is, a constructive and engaged process is always > > preferable and (in my opinion) unions are more to blame for the fact that > > this doesn't exist than are the bosses... > > > > b > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Ben, > > > > > > On 20/10/2011, at 11:54, Ben Kepes wrote: > > > > > > > But if the permanents lose a house > > > > (or, heaven forbid, screw up and lose crew members) it's somehow the > > > fault > > > > of the NZFS for not paying them enough > > > > > > To me this is a similarly shitty thing to say. You can only be referring > > to > > > Tamahere... are you sure you want to assert that it was caused by a > > > "permanents... screwup", and that they blamed it on pay? > > > > > > Come on, stop it. Its completely dishonorable. > > > > > > > > > > Bloody unions > > > > > > Bloody vollies, bloody permanents, bloody bosses, bloody blah blah blah. > > > Reflex tribal bullshit is the opposite of thinking, and the opposite of > > what > > > we need right now in the Fire Service. Most of our interests are exactly > > the > > > same. > > > > > > Can we ALL cut this out? Criticize the specific actions and specific > > people > > > or institutions that behave poorly. Broad-brush slander is just silly. > > > > > > T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b > > > > > > > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Tony Sutorius > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> Ian, > > > >> > > > >> There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely > > about > > > the > > > >> NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? > > > >> > > > >> If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful > > > >> national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be > > > quite > > > >> unforgivable. > > > >> > > > >> In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU > > > president > > > >> implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two > > > hours > > > >> was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died > > in > > > that > > > >> time. How will their relatives feel? > > > >> > > > >> If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service > > has > > > >> been badly dishonoured by it. > > > >> > > > >> T. > > > >> > > > >> On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> Ben > > > >>> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. > > It > > > was > > > >> made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM > > > appointed > > > >> his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members > > > eminently > > > >> more qualified had applied for? > > > >>> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >>> From: Ben Kepes > > > >>> To: VollyNet > > > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > > > >>> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> Tony > > > >>> > > > >>> for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything > > other > > > >> than > > > >>> industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its > > > >> hand > > > >>> and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > > > >>> > > > >>> my 2 cents > > > >>> > > > >>> b > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > > >>> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > > >>> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > > >>> web www.diversity.net.nz > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius > > > >> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >>>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for > > the > > > >>>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the > > initial > > > >>>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to > > improve > > > >> our > > > >>>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > > > >> damage > > > >>>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this > > is > > > >> one of > > > >>>> those times. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and > > > even > > > >>>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > > > >>>> Christchurch is still available online:- > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf > > > >>>> > > > >>>> T. > > > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > >>>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > >>>> > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > >>> > > > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > >>> > > > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > >> > > > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From adam.knezovic at yahoo.co.nz Thu Oct 20 14:38:27 2011 From: adam.knezovic at yahoo.co.nz (Adam Knezovic) Date: Thu Oct 20 14:38:46 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: References: , , <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271>, <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org>, , <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org>, , <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271>, Message-ID: <003101cc8ec8$f843fb70$e8cbf250$@yahoo.co.nz> Yes Kate, I like it, that is why I am a professional volunteer firefighter. Particularly because under the forest and rural fires act, I am considered an employee of the council/fire authority. So yeah, PVFU Professional Volunteer Firefighters Union............ has a ring don't you think? Thanks and regards -----Original Message----- From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Kate . Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 2:16 p.m. To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz Subject: RE: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Wikipedia meaning of 'professional' in regards to work. A high standard of professional ethics, behavior and work activities while carrying out one's profession (as an employee, self-employed person, career, enterprise, business, company, or partnership/associate/colleague, etc.). The professional owes a higher duty to a client, often a privilege of confidentiality, as well as a duty not to abandon the client just because he or she may not be able to pay or remunerate the professional. Often the professional is required to put the interest of the client ahead of his own interests.Reasonable work morale and motivation. Having interest and desire to do a job well as holding positive attitude towards the profession are important elements in attaining a high level of professionalism.Participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs b : having a particular profession as a permanent career c : engaged in by persons receiving financial returnAppropriate treatment of relationships with colleagues. Special respect should be demonstrated to special people and interns. An example must be set to perpetuate the attitude of one's business without doing it harm....... This is a case of sour grapes. Inaccurate accusations. The more the union post things in the media the more the public will find out about these grapes. Not a good look for the union or the 'professional' fire fighters. Kate > Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 17:02:58 -0700 > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > From: ben@diversity.net.nz > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For > information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Ian > > > > Thanks for the reply. I'll admit I'm not (obviously) privy to the > complexities of this current dispute. However I have seen what I > consider to be ill advised rabble-rousing on the part of the union. > And maybe having had years of hearing "well I mean you guys are > allright of course, but vollies generally, yeah, they're just not up > to it" from permanents, I've got a heightened sensitivity around this. > > Yes I am a "boss". I employ a dozen or two workers and know that from > my perspective I am 100 times more likely to have a constructive and > engaged employment discussion with them directly than with some > intermediary that I suspect is going to be pushing interests beyond simply those of the workers. > > I've also been an employee for a bunch of different sized > organizations and have never had an issue that the union could help me > with any better than I could resolve myself. > > I defer to your experience on a paid station, obviously you're seeing > something different from what I am on the outside. What I would say > though is that from my perspective, the union could do things to look > more credible and still get their point across > > b > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sorry Tony , Ben couldn't let this one go. So the unions are "more > > to blame than the bosses for the fact that a constructive and > > engaged process" isn't happening - spoken as a true boss from what > > planet I'm not sure? On all sorts of things, not pay related either, > > you would find just the opposite in the station I work in (as opposed to the one I volunteer in). > > Pretty anti-union, narrow minded view there, which is exactly what > > we as NZPFU members are often up against in this organisation? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ben Kepes > > To: VollyNet > > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For > > information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Tony > > > > What I'm saying is that any time there is an accident/incident > > involving vollies, the NZPFU seems to respond almost immediately > > with harsh criticisms of vollies and the NZFS generally. > > > > When there is an incident/accident involving permanents, Vollies > > tend to respond with concern and interest to see how we can learn > > from the said event > > > > Agree that tribal bullshit is just that but I'd contend that we > > (vollies) are on the low end of the ledger when it comes to this > > stuff > > > > As for my comments about unions, I used to work as an Ambo in Chch, > > I remember sitting in the lunch room on many occasions and having > > the union rep (an expat pom fwiw) banging on the table and spouting > > on about how dodgy the bosses were. As an employer myself, I know > > just how counter productive union rabble rousing is, a constructive > > and engaged process is always preferable and (in my opinion) unions > > are more to blame for the fact that this doesn't exist than are the > > bosses... > > > > b > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Ben, > > > > > > On 20/10/2011, at 11:54, Ben Kepes wrote: > > > > > > > But if the permanents lose a house > > (or, heaven forbid, > > screw up and lose crew members) it's somehow the > fault > > of > > the NZFS for not paying them enough > > To me this is a similarly > > shitty thing to say. You can only be referring to > Tamahere... are > > you sure you want to assert that it was caused by a > > > "permanents... screwup", and that they blamed it on pay? > > > > > > Come on, stop it. Its completely dishonorable. > > > > > > > > > > Bloody unions > > > > > > Bloody vollies, bloody permanents, bloody bosses, bloody blah blah blah. > > > Reflex tribal bullshit is the opposite of thinking, and the > > opposite of what > we need right now in the Fire Service. Most of > > our interests are exactly the > same. > > > > > > Can we ALL cut this out? Criticize the specific actions and > > specific people > or institutions that behave poorly. Broad-brush > > slander is just silly. > > > > > > T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b > > > > > > > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, > > 2011 at 3:51 PM, Tony Sutorius > wrote: > > > > > > > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> Ian, > > > >> > > > >> There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns > > genuinely about > the > >> NZFS response in the first two hours in > > Christchurch? > > > >> > > > >> If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this > > awful > >> national disaster for old-score-settling political > > bullshit would be > quite > >> unforgivable. > > > >> > > > >> In his interview on National Radio this morning the local > > NZPFU > president > >> implied that the Fire Service's strategic > > response in the first two > hours > >> was compromised by the RM's > > non-involvement. Many, many people died in > that > >> time. How > > will their relatives feel? > > > >> > > > >> If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole > > service has > >> been badly dishonoured by it. > > > >> > > > >> T. > > > >> > > > >> On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" > > <4kings@nettel.net.nz> > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> Ben > > > >>> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. > > It > > > was > > > >> made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after > > same RM > appointed > >> his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that > > a number of NZPFU members > eminently > >> more qualified had > > applied for? > > > >>> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >>> From: Ben Kepes > > > >>> To: VollyNet > > > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > >>> Subject: Re: > > [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > >>> > >>> > > > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> Tony > > > >>> > > > >>> for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as > > anything other > >> than > >>> industrial sour grapes. The union > > it seems to me is over-playing its > >> hand > >>> and is very > > close to losing the public sympathy that they have > >>> > >>> my > > 2 cents > >>> > >>> b > >>> > >>> > >>> Ben Kepes - Diversity > > Limited > > > >>> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > > >>> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > > >>> web www.diversity.net.nz > > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On > > Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius > > > >> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN > > NZ > >>>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call > > for the > >>>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for > > Christchurch over the initial > >>>> earthquake response is a very > > sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve > >> our > >>>> ability > > as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but > > sometimes such > >> damage > >>>> is necessary in healing > > festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is > >> one of > >>>> > > those times. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial > > gambit, and > even > >>>> worse if it were just tribal sour > > grapes. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the > > response in > >>>> Christchurch is still available online:- > >>>> > > > >>>> > >>>> > >> > > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%2 > > 0report.pdf > > > >>>> > > > >>>> T. > > > >>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > >>>> > >>>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements > > of > >>>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated > > otherwise > >>>> > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >>> > > > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >>> > > > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > > > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL > > posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal > > opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal > > opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal > > opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal > opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From 4kings at nettel.net.nz Thu Oct 20 16:43:26 2011 From: 4kings at nettel.net.nz (Ian & Heather King) Date: Thu Oct 20 16:43:45 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation References: , , <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271>, <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org>, , <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org>, , <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271>, Message-ID: <9EE6EB3259824CD7A1F5A589A6AD103C@SN2938977271> Kate Wasn't addressing the issue of paid vs volunteer, professional or not. Interested though in your comment " special respect should be demonstrated to special people" After nearly 40 years in this 'profession' both paid and unpaid, let me tell you respect has to be earned, whether the person is " special" in your eyes or not! Does calling yourself a 'hot fire chick' earn respect amongst your peers, probably wouldn't in the brigades I am and have been associated with, or do you know something we don't? Cheers Ian organisation----- Original Message ----- From: Kate . To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:16 PM Subject: RE: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Wikipedia meaning of 'professional' in regards to work. A high standard of professional ethics, behavior and work activities while carrying out one's profession (as an employee, self-employed person, career, enterprise, business, company, or partnership/associate/colleague, etc.). The professional owes a higher duty to a client, often a privilege of confidentiality, as well as a duty not to abandon the client just because he or she may not be able to pay or remunerate the professional. Often the professional is required to put the interest of the client ahead of his own interests.Reasonable work morale and motivation. Having interest and desire to do a job well as holding positive attitude towards the profession are important elements in attaining a high level of professionalism.Participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs b : having a particular profession as a permanent career c : engaged in by persons receiving financial returnAppropriate treatment of relationships with colleagues. Special respect should be demonstrated to special people and interns. An example must be set to perpetuate the attitude of one's business without doing it harm....... This is a case of sour grapes. Inaccurate accusations. The more the union post things in the media the more the public will find out about these grapes. Not a good look for the union or the 'professional' fire fighters. Kate > Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 17:02:58 -0700 > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > From: ben@diversity.net.nz > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Ian > > > > Thanks for the reply. I'll admit I'm not (obviously) privy to the > complexities of this current dispute. However I have seen what I consider to > be ill advised rabble-rousing on the part of the union. And maybe having had > years of hearing "well I mean you guys are allright of course, but vollies > generally, yeah, they're just not up to it" from permanents, I've got a > heightened sensitivity around this. > > Yes I am a "boss". I employ a dozen or two workers and know that from my > perspective I am 100 times more likely to have a constructive and engaged > employment discussion with them directly than with some intermediary that I > suspect is going to be pushing interests beyond simply those of the workers. > > I've also been an employee for a bunch of different sized organizations and > have never had an issue that the union could help me with any better than I > could resolve myself. > > I defer to your experience on a paid station, obviously you're seeing > something different from what I am on the outside. What I would say though > is that from my perspective, the union could do things to look more credible > and still get their point across > > b > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sorry Tony , Ben couldn't let this one go. So the unions are "more to blame > > than the bosses for the fact that a constructive and engaged process" isn't > > happening - spoken as a true boss from what planet I'm not sure? On all > > sorts of things, not pay related either, you would find just the opposite in > > the station I work in (as opposed to the one I volunteer in). > > Pretty anti-union, narrow minded view there, which is exactly what we as > > NZPFU members are often up against in this organisation? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ben Kepes > > To: VollyNet > > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Tony > > > > What I'm saying is that any time there is an accident/incident involving > > vollies, the NZPFU seems to respond almost immediately with harsh > > criticisms > > of vollies and the NZFS generally. > > > > When there is an incident/accident involving permanents, Vollies tend to > > respond with concern and interest to see how we can learn from the said > > event > > > > Agree that tribal bullshit is just that but I'd contend that we (vollies) > > are on the low end of the ledger when it comes to this stuff > > > > As for my comments about unions, I used to work as an Ambo in Chch, I > > remember sitting in the lunch room on many occasions and having the union > > rep (an expat pom fwiw) banging on the table and spouting on about how > > dodgy > > the bosses were. As an employer myself, I know just how counter productive > > union rabble rousing is, a constructive and engaged process is always > > preferable and (in my opinion) unions are more to blame for the fact that > > this doesn't exist than are the bosses... > > > > b > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Ben, > > > > > > On 20/10/2011, at 11:54, Ben Kepes wrote: > > > > > > > But if the permanents lose a house > > > > (or, heaven forbid, screw up and lose crew members) it's somehow the > > > fault > > > > of the NZFS for not paying them enough > > > > > > To me this is a similarly shitty thing to say. You can only be referring > > to > > > Tamahere... are you sure you want to assert that it was caused by a > > > "permanents... screwup", and that they blamed it on pay? > > > > > > Come on, stop it. Its completely dishonorable. > > > > > > > > > > Bloody unions > > > > > > Bloody vollies, bloody permanents, bloody bosses, bloody blah blah blah. > > > Reflex tribal bullshit is the opposite of thinking, and the opposite of > > what > > > we need right now in the Fire Service. Most of our interests are exactly > > the > > > same. > > > > > > Can we ALL cut this out? Criticize the specific actions and specific > > people > > > or institutions that behave poorly. Broad-brush slander is just silly. > > > > > > T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b > > > > > > > > > > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > > > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > > > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > > > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Tony Sutorius > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> Ian, > > > >> > > > >> There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely > > about > > > the > > > >> NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? > > > >> > > > >> If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful > > > >> national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be > > > quite > > > >> unforgivable. > > > >> > > > >> In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU > > > president > > > >> implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two > > > hours > > > >> was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died > > in > > > that > > > >> time. How will their relatives feel? > > > >> > > > >> If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service > > has > > > >> been badly dishonoured by it. > > > >> > > > >> T. > > > >> > > > >> On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> Ben > > > >>> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. > > It > > > was > > > >> made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM > > > appointed > > > >> his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members > > > eminently > > > >> more qualified had applied for? > > > >>> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >>> From: Ben Kepes > > > >>> To: VollyNet > > > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > > > >>> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> Tony > > > >>> > > > >>> for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything > > other > > > >> than > > > >>> industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its > > > >> hand > > > >>> and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > > > >>> > > > >>> my 2 cents > > > >>> > > > >>> b > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > > > >>> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > > > >>> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > > > >>> web www.diversity.net.nz > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius > > > >> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > > >>>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for > > the > > > >>>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the > > initial > > > >>>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to > > improve > > > >> our > > > >>>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > > > >> damage > > > >>>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this > > is > > > >> one of > > > >>>> those times. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and > > > even > > > >>>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > > > >>>> Christchurch is still available online:- > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report.pdf > > > >>>> > > > >>>> T. > > > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > >>>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > >>>> > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > >>> > > > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > >>> > > > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > >> > > > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ed at hintz.org Thu Oct 20 16:54:01 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Thu Oct 20 16:54:16 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <9EE6EB3259824CD7A1F5A589A6AD103C@SN2938977271> References: , , <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271>, <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org>, , <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org>, , <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271>, <9EE6EB3259824CD7A1F5A589A6AD103C@SN2938977271> Message-ID: <4E9F9B59.7070204@hintz.org> On 10/20/11 4:43 PM, Ian & Heather King wrote: > Wasn't addressing the issue of paid vs volunteer, professional or not. Interested though in your comment " special respect should be demonstrated to special people" After nearly 40 years in this 'profession' both paid and unpaid, let me tell you respect has to be earned, whether the person is " special" in your eyes or not! Admittedly difficult to tell where Wiki ends and Kate begins in that mail. Quite easy if you refer to her named source however: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional#Definition As you are now clearly aware, Kate's comments begin at "This is a case of sour grapes". The "special respect" business is simply a copy/paste from Wikipedia, and quite possibly not even important to Kate's point. Clearly not something she wrote regardless. > Does calling yourself a 'hot fire chick' earn respect amongst your peers, probably wouldn't in the brigades I am and have been associated with, or do you know something we don't? Given the above clarification of what Kate said vs what Wiki said, I'd posit that this turn of discussion is veering rather close to something between a straw man agurment and a personal attack. Neither seems terribly appropriate for this discussion given our newly found clarification of Kate's comments, surely you'll agree? -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From ben at diversity.net.nz Thu Oct 20 16:58:54 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Thu Oct 20 16:59:08 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <4E9F9B59.7070204@hintz.org> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org> <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271> <9EE6EB3259824CD7A1F5A589A6AD103C@SN2938977271> <4E9F9B59.7070204@hintz.org> Message-ID: nicely defused ed i'm not sure that anyone's personal choice of email address is an appropriate or valid basis for comment, however accurate or otherwise it may be... b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz? |? P +64 3 3146006? |?? M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes? |? twitter @benkepes web?www.diversity.net.nz On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Edmund Hintz wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > On 10/20/11 4:43 PM, Ian & Heather King wrote: > >> Wasn't addressing the issue of paid vs volunteer, professional or not. Interested though in your comment " special respect should be demonstrated to special people" After nearly 40 years in this 'profession' both paid and unpaid, let me tell you respect has to be earned, whether the person is " special" in your eyes or not! > > Admittedly difficult to tell where Wiki ends and Kate begins in that > mail. Quite easy if you refer to her named source however: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional#Definition > > As you are now clearly aware, Kate's comments begin at "This is a case > of sour grapes". The "special respect" business is simply a copy/paste > from Wikipedia, and quite possibly not even important to Kate's point. > Clearly not something she wrote regardless. > >> Does calling yourself a 'hot fire chick' earn respect amongst your peers, probably wouldn't in the brigades I am and have been associated with, or do you know something we don't? > > Given the above clarification of what Kate said vs what Wiki said, I'd > posit that this turn of discussion is veering rather close to something > between a straw man agurment and a personal attack. Neither seems > terribly appropriate for this discussion given our newly found > clarification of Kate's comments, surely you'll agree? > > -- > Regards, > > Ed Hintz > ed@hintz.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From 4kings at nettel.net.nz Thu Oct 20 17:06:01 2011 From: 4kings at nettel.net.nz (Ian & Heather King) Date: Thu Oct 20 17:06:16 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271><039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org><9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org><0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271><9EE6EB3259824CD7A1F5A589A6AD103C@SN2938977271><4E9F9B59.7070204@hintz.org> Message-ID: <5957F685694A400DA4149C34AC4C1AAD@SN2938977271> Ben, my comments merely related to respect, the gaining of it or otherwise. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Kepes To: VollyNet Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- nicely defused ed i'm not sure that anyone's personal choice of email address is an appropriate or valid basis for comment, however accurate or otherwise it may be... b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes web www.diversity.net.nz On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Edmund Hintz wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > On 10/20/11 4:43 PM, Ian & Heather King wrote: > >> Wasn't addressing the issue of paid vs volunteer, professional or not. Interested though in your comment " special respect should be demonstrated to special people" After nearly 40 years in this 'profession' both paid and unpaid, let me tell you respect has to be earned, whether the person is " special" in your eyes or not! > > Admittedly difficult to tell where Wiki ends and Kate begins in that > mail. Quite easy if you refer to her named source however: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional#Definition > > As you are now clearly aware, Kate's comments begin at "This is a case > of sour grapes". The "special respect" business is simply a copy/paste > from Wikipedia, and quite possibly not even important to Kate's point. > Clearly not something she wrote regardless. > >> Does calling yourself a 'hot fire chick' earn respect amongst your peers, probably wouldn't in the brigades I am and have been associated with, or do you know something we don't? > > Given the above clarification of what Kate said vs what Wiki said, I'd > posit that this turn of discussion is veering rather close to something > between a straw man agurment and a personal attack. Neither seems > terribly appropriate for this discussion given our newly found > clarification of Kate's comments, surely you'll agree? > > -- > Regards, > > Ed Hintz > ed@hintz.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From hot.fire.chick at windowslive.com Thu Oct 20 17:13:30 2011 From: hot.fire.chick at windowslive.com (Kate .) Date: Thu Oct 20 17:13:46 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: References: , , <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271>, <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org>, , <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org>, , <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271>, , , <9EE6EB3259824CD7A1F5A589A6AD103C@SN2938977271>, <4E9F9B59.7070204@hintz.org>, Message-ID: Just for you Ian to save any misunderstandings. My email address was chosen on the day that i had done a hot fire training nothing to do with me personally.Sorry about the confusion in where the Wiki copy and paste ends I did have some enters in there but they didnt show up. Ed was correct in what he has posted in regards to this. heard a saying once cant rememeber how it goes but something along the line of once you start personal attacks then you lose your credibility in the discussion. Kate > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > nicely defused ed > > i'm not sure that anyone's personal choice of email address is an > appropriate or valid basis for comment, however accurate or otherwise > it may be... > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Edmund Hintz wrote: > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > On 10/20/11 4:43 PM, Ian & Heather King wrote: > > > >> Wasn't addressing the issue of paid vs volunteer, professional or not. Interested though in your comment " special respect should be demonstrated to special people" After nearly 40 years in this 'profession' both paid and unpaid, let me tell you respect has to be earned, whether the person is " special" in your eyes or not! > > > > Admittedly difficult to tell where Wiki ends and Kate begins in that > > mail. Quite easy if you refer to her named source however: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional#Definition > > > > As you are now clearly aware, Kate's comments begin at "This is a case > > of sour grapes". The "special respect" business is simply a copy/paste > > from Wikipedia, and quite possibly not even important to Kate's point. > > Clearly not something she wrote regardless. > > > >> Does calling yourself a 'hot fire chick' earn respect amongst your peers, probably wouldn't in the brigades I am and have been associated with, or do you know something we don't? > > > > Given the above clarification of what Kate said vs what Wiki said, I'd > > posit that this turn of discussion is veering rather close to something > > between a straw man agurment and a personal attack. Neither seems > > terribly appropriate for this discussion given our newly found > > clarification of Kate's comments, surely you'll agree? > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Ed Hintz > > ed@hintz.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From kiwis1 at slingshot.co.nz Thu Oct 20 20:46:28 2011 From: kiwis1 at slingshot.co.nz (Stephen) Date: Thu Oct 20 20:46:43 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM In-Reply-To: <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> Message-ID: <02c001cc8efc$60967e40$21c37ac0$@co.nz> The audio for today's radio interview is here:- http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2500666/denis- fitzmaurice.asx Stephen -----Original Message----- From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Tony Sutorius Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 11:52 a.m. To: VollyNet Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- Ian, There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about the NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be quite unforgivable. In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU president implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two hours was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in that time. How will their relatives feel? If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has been badly dishonoured by it. T. On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Ben > Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently more qualified had applied for? > Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ben Kepes > To: VollyNet > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Tony > > for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other than > industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand > and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > > my 2 cents > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 >> >> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the >> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial >> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve our >> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. >> >> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such damage >> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one of >> those times. >> >> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even >> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. >> >> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in >> Christchurch is still available online:- >> >> >> http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report. pdf >> >> T. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ben at diversity.net.nz Thu Oct 20 21:14:42 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Thu Oct 20 21:15:01 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM In-Reply-To: <02c001cc8efc$60967e40$21c37ac0$@co.nz> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> <02c001cc8efc$60967e40$21c37ac0$@co.nz> Message-ID: Denis is a bloody nice guy.... But this time he's just plain wrong - it just sounds like total sour grapes. And his contention that it has nothing to do with the current industrial action just rings hollow to me.... b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz? |? P +64 3 3146006? |?? M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes? |? twitter @benkepes web?www.diversity.net.nz On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Stephen wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > The audio for today's radio interview is here:- > http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2500666/denis- > fitzmaurice.asx > > > Stephen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz > [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Tony Sutorius > Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 11:52 a.m. > To: VollyNet > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Ian, > > There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about the > NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? > > If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful > national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be quite > unforgivable. > > In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU president > implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two hours > was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in that > time. How will their relatives feel? > > If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has > been badly dishonoured by it. > > T. > > On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> wrote: > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Ben >> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was > made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed > his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently > more qualified had applied for? >> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. >> ?----- Original Message ----- >> ?From: Ben Kepes >> ?To: VollyNet >> ?Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM >> ?Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation >> >> >> ?VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> ?For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ?---------------------------------------------------------------- >> ?Tony >> >> ?for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other > than >> ?industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand >> ?and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have >> >> ?my 2 cents >> >> ?b >> >> >> ?Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited >> ?E ben@diversity.net.nz ?| ?P +64 3 3146006 ?| ? M 021 2384136 >> ?skype ben_kepes ?| ?twitter @benkepes >> ?web www.diversity.net.nz >> >> >> >> >> ?On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: >> >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 >>> >>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the >>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial >>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve > our >>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. >>> >>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > damage >>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one > of >>> those times. >>> >>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even >>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. >>> >>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in >>> Christchurch is still available online:- >>> >>> >>> > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report. > pdf >>> >>> T. >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >>> >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >>> >> ?---------------------------------------------------------------- >> ?MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ?ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> ?personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From tds_4 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 20 21:34:06 2011 From: tds_4 at hotmail.com (Tristan Saunders) Date: Thu Oct 20 21:34:21 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <4E9F9B59.7070204@hintz.org> References: , , , , <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271>, , <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org>, , , , <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org>, , , , <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271>, , , , <9EE6EB3259824CD7A1F5A589A6AD103C@SN2938977271>, <4E9F9B59.7070204@hintz.org> Message-ID: even if a comment is simply a copy/paste Ed, people still need to be aware, and own responsibility of, what they post on forums. > Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 16:54:01 +1300 > From: ed@hintz.org > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > On 10/20/11 4:43 PM, Ian & Heather King wrote: > > > Wasn't addressing the issue of paid vs volunteer, professional or not. Interested though in your comment " special respect should be demonstrated to special people" After nearly 40 years in this 'profession' both paid and unpaid, let me tell you respect has to be earned, whether the person is " special" in your eyes or not! > > Admittedly difficult to tell where Wiki ends and Kate begins in that > mail. Quite easy if you refer to her named source however: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional#Definition > > As you are now clearly aware, Kate's comments begin at "This is a case > of sour grapes". The "special respect" business is simply a copy/paste > from Wikipedia, and quite possibly not even important to Kate's point. > Clearly not something she wrote regardless. > > > Does calling yourself a 'hot fire chick' earn respect amongst your peers, probably wouldn't in the brigades I am and have been associated with, or do you know something we don't? > > Given the above clarification of what Kate said vs what Wiki said, I'd > posit that this turn of discussion is veering rather close to something > between a straw man agurment and a personal attack. Neither seems > terribly appropriate for this discussion given our newly found > clarification of Kate's comments, surely you'll agree? > > -- > Regards, > > Ed Hintz > ed@hintz.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From tds_4 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 20 21:44:05 2011 From: tds_4 at hotmail.com (Tristan Saunders) Date: Thu Oct 20 21:44:19 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM In-Reply-To: References: , , <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271>, <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org>, <02c001cc8efc$60967e40$21c37ac0$@co.nz>, Message-ID: Have you read the report Ben? Are you aware of other previous events that the union is baseing this on? If the industrial action wasnt on, would your sentiments be the same? If a group is unhappy with their heirarchy, do you not concede that it be appropriate for them to question that, and possibly take action? (probably plenty of other groups who would benefit from such action, but dont take it for various reasons..) No attitude, tone of voice or ulterior point making there, purely questions regarding the decision making.. > Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:14:42 -0700 > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM > From: ben@diversity.net.nz > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Denis is a bloody nice guy.... > > But this time he's just plain wrong - it just sounds like total sour > grapes. And his contention that it has nothing to do with the current > industrial action just rings hollow to me.... > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Stephen wrote: > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > The audio for today's radio interview is here:- > > http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2500666/denis- > > fitzmaurice.asx > > > > > > Stephen > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz > > [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Tony Sutorius > > Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 11:52 a.m. > > To: VollyNet > > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ian, > > > > There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about the > > NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? > > > > If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful > > national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be quite > > unforgivable. > > > > In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU president > > implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two hours > > was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in that > > time. How will their relatives feel? > > > > If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has > > been badly dishonoured by it. > > > > T. > > > > On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> wrote: > > > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Ben > >> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was > > made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed > > his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently > > more qualified had applied for? > >> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Ben Kepes > >> To: VollyNet > >> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > >> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > >> > >> > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Tony > >> > >> for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other > > than > >> industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand > >> and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > >> > >> my 2 cents > >> > >> b > >> > >> > >> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > >> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > >> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > >> web www.diversity.net.nz > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > >> > >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > >>> > >>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > >>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > >>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve > > our > >>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > >>> > >>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > > damage > >>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one > > of > >>> those times. > >>> > >>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even > >>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > >>> > >>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > >>> Christchurch is still available online:- > >>> > >>> > >>> > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report. > > pdf > >>> > >>> T. > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >>> > >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ben at diversity.net.nz Thu Oct 20 21:57:12 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Thu Oct 20 21:57:29 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM In-Reply-To: References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> <02c001cc8efc$60967e40$21c37ac0$@co.nz> Message-ID: Tristan My question is whether they'd be jumping up and down if the industrial action was not on. My assessment is that they'd likely not be but what with that, the National Commander and Chair of the commission changes and the opportunity of the report... well you can see your thinking b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz? |? P +64 3 3146006? |?? M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes? |? twitter @benkepes web?www.diversity.net.nz On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Tristan Saunders wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Have you read the report Ben? Are you aware of other previous events that the union is baseing this on? If the industrial action wasnt on, would your sentiments be the same? If a group is unhappy with their heirarchy, do you not concede that it be appropriate for them to question that, and possibly take action? > (probably plenty of other groups who would benefit from such action, but dont take it for various reasons..) > > No attitude, tone of voice or ulterior point making there, purely questions regarding the decision making.. > >> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:14:42 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM >> From: ben@diversity.net.nz >> To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz >> >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Denis is a bloody nice guy.... >> >> But this time he's just plain wrong - it just sounds like total sour >> grapes. And his contention that it has nothing to do with the current >> industrial action just rings hollow to me.... >> >> b >> >> >> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited >> E ben@diversity.net.nz ?| ?P +64 3 3146006 ?| ? M 021 2384136 >> skype ben_kepes ?| ?twitter @benkepes >> web www.diversity.net.nz >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Stephen wrote: >> > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> > The audio for today's radio interview is here:- >> > http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2500666/denis- >> > fitzmaurice.asx >> > >> > >> > Stephen >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz >> > [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Tony Sutorius >> > Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 11:52 a.m. >> > To: VollyNet >> > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation >> > >> > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> > Ian, >> > >> > There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about the >> > NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? >> > >> > If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful >> > national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be quite >> > unforgivable. >> > >> > In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU president >> > implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two hours >> > was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in that >> > time. How will their relatives feel? >> > >> > If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has >> > been badly dishonoured by it. >> > >> > T. >> > >> > On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> wrote: >> > >> >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Ben >> >> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was >> > made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed >> > his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently >> > more qualified had applied for? >> >> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. >> >> ?----- Original Message ----- >> >> ?From: Ben Kepes >> >> ?To: VollyNet >> >> ?Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM >> >> ?Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation >> >> >> >> >> >> ?VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> >> ?For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> >> ?---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ?Tony >> >> >> >> ?for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other >> > than >> >> ?industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand >> >> ?and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have >> >> >> >> ?my 2 cents >> >> >> >> ?b >> >> >> >> >> >> ?Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited >> >> ?E ben@diversity.net.nz ?| ?P +64 3 3146006 ?| ? M 021 2384136 >> >> ?skype ben_kepes ?| ?twitter @benkepes >> >> ?web www.diversity.net.nz >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ?On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: >> >> >> >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 >> >>> >> >>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the >> >>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial >> >>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve >> > our >> >>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. >> >>> >> >>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such >> > damage >> >>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one >> > of >> >>> those times. >> >>> >> >>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even >> >>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. >> >>> >> >>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in >> >>> Christchurch is still available online:- >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report. >> > pdf >> >>> >> >>> T. >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >>> >> >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> >>> >> >> ?---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ?MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> >> >> ?ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> >> ?personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> > >> > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> > >> > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From tds_4 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 20 22:18:34 2011 From: tds_4 at hotmail.com (Tristan Saunders) Date: Thu Oct 20 22:18:53 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM In-Reply-To: References: , , <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271>, <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org>, <02c001cc8efc$60967e40$21c37ac0$@co.nz>, , , Message-ID: well the industrial action is on, so the timing will have to remain as is. Who's to say that they wouldnt be making such comments if it weren't. It helps to know some information before saying either way.. Anyone answering yes to my first two questions would have more credibility in commenting than a no answerer... The call for resignation is led by the local union. The call for industrial action is led by the national union.. > Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:57:12 -0700 > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM > From: ben@diversity.net.nz > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Tristan > > My question is whether they'd be jumping up and down if the industrial > action was not on. My assessment is that they'd likely not be but what > with that, the National Commander and Chair of the commission changes > and the opportunity of the report... well you can see your thinking > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Tristan Saunders wrote: > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Have you read the report Ben? Are you aware of other previous events that the union is baseing this on? If the industrial action wasnt on, would your sentiments be the same? If a group is unhappy with their heirarchy, do you not concede that it be appropriate for them to question that, and possibly take action? > > (probably plenty of other groups who would benefit from such action, but dont take it for various reasons..) > > > > No attitude, tone of voice or ulterior point making there, purely questions regarding the decision making.. > > > >> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:14:42 -0700 > >> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM > >> From: ben@diversity.net.nz > >> To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > >> > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Denis is a bloody nice guy.... > >> > >> But this time he's just plain wrong - it just sounds like total sour > >> grapes. And his contention that it has nothing to do with the current > >> industrial action just rings hollow to me.... > >> > >> b > >> > >> > >> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > >> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > >> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > >> web www.diversity.net.nz > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Stephen wrote: > >> > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > The audio for today's radio interview is here:- > >> > http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2500666/denis- > >> > fitzmaurice.asx > >> > > >> > > >> > Stephen > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz > >> > [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Tony Sutorius > >> > Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 11:52 a.m. > >> > To: VollyNet > >> > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > >> > > >> > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > Ian, > >> > > >> > There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about the > >> > NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? > >> > > >> > If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful > >> > national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be quite > >> > unforgivable. > >> > > >> > In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU president > >> > implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two hours > >> > was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in that > >> > time. How will their relatives feel? > >> > > >> > If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has > >> > been badly dishonoured by it. > >> > > >> > T. > >> > > >> > On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> wrote: > >> > > >> >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> Ben > >> >> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was > >> > made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed > >> > his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently > >> > more qualified had applied for? > >> >> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: Ben Kepes > >> >> To: VollyNet > >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > >> >> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> Tony > >> >> > >> >> for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other > >> > than > >> >> industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand > >> >> and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > >> >> > >> >> my 2 cents > >> >> > >> >> b > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > >> >> E ben@diversity.net.nz | P +64 3 3146006 | M 021 2384136 > >> >> skype ben_kepes | twitter @benkepes > >> >> web www.diversity.net.nz > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > >> >>> > >> >>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > >> >>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > >> >>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve > >> > our > >> >>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > >> >>> > >> >>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > >> > damage > >> >>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one > >> > of > >> >>> those times. > >> >>> > >> >>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even > >> >>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > >> >>> > >> >>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > >> >>> Christchurch is still available online:- > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report. > >> > pdf > >> >>> > >> >>> T. > >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> >>> > >> >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> >>> > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> >> > >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> >> > >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > > >> > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > > >> > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From vanekdarren at yahoo.com.au Thu Oct 20 23:11:56 2011 From: vanekdarren at yahoo.com.au (Darren van Ek) Date: Thu Oct 20 23:12:15 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM In-Reply-To: References: , , <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271>, <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org>, <02c001cc8efc$60967e40$21c37ac0$@co.nz>, , , Message-ID: <1319105516.12661.YahooMailNeo@web114710.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Unions have their place, but I only support my union if their arguements are sound and based on facts and the facts can be backed up, nothing annoys me more than a union president or similar that just carries on and rants with no basis for their arguement. I am a member of the UFU, and at this time our union isn't to bad, but some I have seen around the country and other countries are just embarassing and I would not pay my union dues to be represented by a clown. Good arguements, and fighting for a better service is what they should be about. If your union has a case, then so be it, if not then shut up and stop being embarassing to your members. ________________________________ From: Tristan Saunders To: VollyNet Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 7:48 PM Subject: RE: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- well the industrial action is on, so the timing will have to remain as is. Who's to say that they wouldnt be making such comments if it weren't. It helps to know some information before saying either way.. Anyone answering yes to my first two questions would have more credibility in commenting than a no answerer... The call for resignation is led by the local union. The call for industrial action is led by the national union.. > Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:57:12 -0700 > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM > From: ben@diversity.net.nz > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Tristan > > My question is whether they'd be jumping up and down if the industrial > action was not on. My assessment is that they'd likely not be but what > with that, the National Commander and Chair of the commission changes > and the opportunity of the report... well you can see your thinking > > b > > > Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > E ben@diversity.net.nz? |? P +64 3 3146006? |? M 021 2384136 > skype ben_kepes? |? twitter @benkepes > web www.diversity.net.nz > > > > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Tristan Saunders wrote: > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Have you read the report Ben? Are you aware of other previous events that the union is baseing this on? If the industrial action wasnt on, would your sentiments be the same? If a group is unhappy with their heirarchy, do you not concede that it be appropriate for them to question that, and possibly take action? > > (probably plenty of other groups who would benefit from such action, but dont take it for various reasons..) > > > > No attitude, tone of voice or ulterior point making there, purely questions regarding the decision making.. > > > >> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:14:42 -0700 > >> Subject: Re: [VollyNet] RE: Transalpine RM > >> From: ben@diversity.net.nz > >> To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > >> > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Denis is a bloody nice guy.... > >> > >> But this time he's just plain wrong - it just sounds like total sour > >> grapes. And his contention that it has nothing to do with the current > >> industrial action just rings hollow to me.... > >> > >> b > >> > >> > >> Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > >> E ben@diversity.net.nz? |? P +64 3 3146006? |? M 021 2384136 > >> skype ben_kepes? |? twitter @benkepes > >> web www.diversity.net.nz > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Stephen wrote: > >> > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > The audio for today's radio interview is here:- > >> > http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2500666/denis- > >> > fitzmaurice.asx > >> > > >> > > >> > Stephen > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz > >> > [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Tony Sutorius > >> > Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 11:52 a.m. > >> > To: VollyNet > >> > Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > >> > > >> > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > Ian, > >> > > >> > There may be "genuine concerns", but are these concerns genuinely about the > >> > NZFS response in the first two hours in Christchurch? > >> > > >> > If not the NZPFU should be ashamed of themselves... using this awful > >> > national disaster for old-score-settling political bullshit would be quite > >> > unforgivable. > >> > > >> > In his interview on National Radio this morning the local NZPFU president > >> > implied that the Fire Service's strategic response in the first two hours > >> > was compromised by the RM's non-involvement. Many, many people died in that > >> > time. How will their relatives feel? > >> > > >> > If this accusation isn't 100% sincere and genuine, the whole service has > >> > been badly dishonoured by it. > >> > > >> > T. > >> > > >> > On 20/10/2011, at 11:36, "Ian & Heather King" <4kings@nettel.net.nz> wrote: > >> > > >> >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> Ben > >> >> Bear in mind this call was first made well before any earthquakes. It was > >> > made about time of fatal fire in Kaiapoi, then again after same RM appointed > >> > his mate from Kaiapoi to the AM job that a number of NZPFU members eminently > >> > more qualified had applied for? > >> >> Genuine concerns not industrial sour grapes. > >> >>? ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>? From: Ben Kepes > >> >>? To: VollyNet > >> >>? Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:29 AM > >> >>? Subject: Re: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>? VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> >>? For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> >>? ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>? Tony > >> >> > >> >>? for one of those on the ground, it's hard to see it as anything other > >> > than > >> >>? industrial sour grapes. The union it seems to me is over-playing its hand > >> >>? and is very close to losing the public sympathy that they have > >> >> > >> >>? my 2 cents > >> >> > >> >>? b > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>? Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited > >> >>? E ben@diversity.net.nz? |? P +64 3 3146006? |? M 021 2384136 > >> >>? skype ben_kepes? |? twitter @benkepes > >> >>? web www.diversity.net.nz > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>? On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Tony Sutorius wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > >> >>> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>> http://issuu.com/mainlandpress/docs/mp30 > >> >>> > >> >>> I hope... really really REALLY hope... that the NZPFU's call for the > >> >>> resignation of then-Regional Manager for Christchurch over the initial > >> >>> earthquake response is a very sincere and heartfelt attempt to improve > >> > our > >> >>> ability as a service to respond to NZ's next major civil emergency. > >> >>> > >> >>> Its obviously damaging to our public reputation; but sometimes such > >> > damage > >> >>> is necessary in healing festering wounds.... I sincerely hope this is one > >> > of > >> >>> those times. > >> >>> > >> >>> It'd be terribly, terribly sad if it were an industrial gambit, and even > >> >>> worse if it were just tribal sour grapes. > >> >>> > >> >>> For those interested, the Fire Service report on the response in > >> >>> Christchurch is still available online:- > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> > http://www.fire.org.nz/Media/News/Documents/Christchurch%20inquiry%20report. > >> > pdf > >> >>> > >> >>> T. > >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> >>> > >> >>> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> >>> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> >>> > >> >>? ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>? MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> >> > >> >>? ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> >>? personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> >> > >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > > >> > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > > >> > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >> > >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ? ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ed at hintz.org Fri Oct 21 07:43:59 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Fri Oct 21 07:44:13 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: References: , , , , <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271>, , <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org>, , , , <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org>, , , , <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271>, , , , <9EE6EB3259824CD7A1F5A589A6AD103C@SN2938977271>, <4E9F9B59.7070204@hintz.org> Message-ID: <4EA06BEF.6000206@hintz.org> On 10/20/11 9:34 PM, Tristan Saunders wrote: > even if a comment is simply a copy/paste Ed, people still need to be aware, and own responsibility of, what they post on forums. I agree wholeheartedly. I also stand by my statement: when challenging quoted text from a cited source, building straw man arguments or engaging in personal attacks based on the email nic of the person who quoted it is out of line and counter to constructive discussion. I have no comment or issue with the material of Kate's post, and I have yet to see any indication that she is not taking responsibility for it. Ian may very well have valid points regarding Kate's accuracy or bias, but if so those need to be addressed for what they are. There was much angst around here about this sort of behavior about 2 years ago. Thankfully it has mellowed out and returned to a more constructive forum for debate. I'm rather keen that it stay that way, and it got dangerously close to veering into a flame fest there. -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From ben at diversity.net.nz Fri Oct 21 07:45:56 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Fri Oct 21 07:46:12 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] NZPFU call for Transalpine RM resignation In-Reply-To: <4EA06BEF.6000206@hintz.org> References: <49893D0501B54375B7E9D3A4024F249B@SN2938977271> <039687FD-FAFE-44A9-AEC9-2E4C76E5DC71@sutorius.org> <9D1223B7-32A8-40D3-BFAA-FF94961304B1@sutorius.org> <0D90B223CC5A4BFB9708A4E0A0F284C3@SN2938977271> <9EE6EB3259824CD7A1F5A589A6AD103C@SN2938977271> <4E9F9B59.7070204@hintz.org> <4EA06BEF.6000206@hintz.org> Message-ID: flame fest? how appropriate (while being inappropriate) lol b Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz? |? P +64 3 3146006? |?? M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes? |? twitter @benkepes web?www.diversity.net.nz On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Edmund Hintz wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > On 10/20/11 9:34 PM, Tristan Saunders wrote: > >> even if a comment is simply a copy/paste Ed, people still need to be aware, and own responsibility of, what they post on forums. > > I agree wholeheartedly. I also stand by my statement: when challenging > quoted text from a cited source, building straw man arguments or > engaging in personal attacks based on the email nic of the person who > quoted it is out of line and counter to constructive discussion. I have > no comment or issue with the material of Kate's post, and I have yet to > see any indication that she is not taking responsibility for it. > > Ian may very well have valid points regarding Kate's accuracy or bias, > but if so those need to be addressed for what they are. > > There was much angst around here about this sort of behavior about 2 > years ago. Thankfully it has mellowed out and returned to a more > constructive forum for debate. I'm rather keen that it stay that way, > and it got dangerously close to veering into a flame fest there. > > -- > Regards, > > Ed Hintz > ed@hintz.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From ben at diversity.net.nz Fri Oct 21 11:15:36 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Fri Oct 21 11:15:56 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Rob Saunders and the Earthquake report Message-ID: Interesting I just got off the phone with Rob Saunders - we had a fairly extensive discussion about the union calls for his resignation and the earthquake report generally. First I have to say that, despite the discussion being private, and despite the degree of baiting that Rob is receiving, he didn't do what most of us would in the situation and take the opportunity to lash out about the union. He was constructive and more optimistic than I would have expected him to be. With regards the earthquake report we talked about the suggested improvements and areas of concern the report highlighted - and the reasons these issues arose - suffice it to say that it was an extraordinary event but that things seemed to go pretty well (for interest - on the day of the quake I wasn't doing fire stuff but was in the CBD playing Ambo and while things were a little chaotic, they were far less so than when Civil Defence got involved. Similarly I did a few days in the CBD in the days following the event and the fire side of things was better run than council/CD aspects). The bottom line is that Rob expressed his preparedness to discuss the report with individuals or groups that wish to do so. Corporate responsibility, and a respect for the high standing the NZFS has in the public eye preclude him for doing so in the media (if only the union held such concerns) but I found him open and engaged in our conversation. So there you go - my 2 cents. Ben Ben Kepes - Diversity Limited E ben@diversity.net.nz? |? P +64 3 3146006? |?? M 021 2384136 skype ben_kepes? |? twitter @benkepes web?www.diversity.net.nz From nilsonfamily at xtra.co.nz Fri Oct 21 18:31:34 2011 From: nilsonfamily at xtra.co.nz (Nilson Family) Date: Fri Oct 21 18:33:24 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Congrats Ed Message-ID: I hear there is a new Station Officer Ed Hintz, congrats Ed From nilsonfamily at xtra.co.nz Fri Oct 21 18:31:34 2011 From: nilsonfamily at xtra.co.nz (Nilson Family) Date: Fri Oct 21 18:33:25 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Congrats Ed Message-ID: I hear there is a new Station Officer Ed Hintz, congrats Ed From ben at diversity.net.nz Fri Oct 21 18:38:18 2011 From: ben at diversity.net.nz (Ben Kepes) Date: Fri Oct 21 18:38:39 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Congrats Ed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Welcome to the club Ed! Sent from mobile. Expect typos On Oct 21, 2011 6:33 PM, "Nilson Family" wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > I hear there is a new Station Officer Ed Hintz, congrats Ed > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > From tds_4 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 21 18:41:24 2011 From: tds_4 at hotmail.com (Tristan Saunders) Date: Fri Oct 21 18:41:37 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Congrats Ed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2 of them? on the same day? Wot a co-inky dink! > Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 18:31:34 +1300 > From: nilsonfamily@xtra.co.nz > To: vollynet@unreal.co.nz; vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > CC: > Subject: [VollyNet] Congrats Ed > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > I hear there is a new Station Officer Ed Hintz, congrats Ed > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From kiwis1 at slingshot.co.nz Fri Oct 21 21:45:29 2011 From: kiwis1 at slingshot.co.nz (Stephen) Date: Fri Oct 21 21:45:40 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] News:- Arsonist security guard gets 7 yrs Message-ID: <003701cc8fcd$c9ad7ec0$5d087c40$@co.nz> http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/5828587/Feilding-arsonist-jailed-fo r-seven-years From allanhoult at yahoo.com.au Fri Oct 21 23:23:30 2011 From: allanhoult at yahoo.com.au (Allan Hoult) Date: Fri Oct 21 23:24:48 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report In-Reply-To: <1318412116.1877.0.camel@marks-G41MT-S2P> References: <1318412116.1877.0.camel@marks-G41MT-S2P> Message-ID: <1319192610.19653.YahooMailNeo@web112515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/5828739/Staff-cut-plan-a-real-worry-for-fire-chiefs From kiwis1 at slingshot.co.nz Fri Oct 21 23:56:52 2011 From: kiwis1 at slingshot.co.nz (Stephen) Date: Fri Oct 21 23:57:03 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report In-Reply-To: <1319192610.19653.YahooMailNeo@web112515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1318412116.1877.0.camel@marks-G41MT-S2P> <1319192610.19653.YahooMailNeo@web112515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004801cc8fe0$24738ae0$6d5aa0a0$@co.nz> Thanks Allan. This is one of the worst parts of the restructure. Replacing the excellent Arapawa model of tailored paid part time help from locals helping their own brigade, with the worst model of full time VSOs who can respond to calls, perform AM and FireComms roles, appear in the media instead of the local officers in charge, and whatever else they like. It's actually the paper and computer work help that's needed, as these guys said. It must be a lot cheaper to pay some locals for a few hours admin work each per week, compared to all the expense of a salary (+ overtime?),_utes, fuel, cellphones, having offices, gear and stores, uniforms, training, conference attendance etc. How many VSOs will be at the UFBA conference for example? Put that money into local paid brigade help. In smaller places being paid for a few hours could make the difference to having another operational member, or getting fire risk reduction work done. The other big dumb idea is to hack the expert fire safety staff numbers (especially FAIPs) and replace them with untrained VSOs. Incredible! Watch the fire death and arsonist numbers increase. Stephen -----Original Message----- From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Allan Hoult Sent: Friday, 21 October 2011 11:24 p.m. To: VollyNet Subject: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/5828739/Staff-cut-plan-a-real-worry-for-fire-chiefs ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From tds_4 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 22 02:36:25 2011 From: tds_4 at hotmail.com (Tristan Saunders) Date: Sat Oct 22 02:36:46 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report In-Reply-To: <004801cc8fe0$24738ae0$6d5aa0a0$@co.nz> References: <1318412116.1877.0.camel@marks-G41MT-S2P>, <1319192610.19653.YahooMailNeo@web112515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>, <004801cc8fe0$24738ae0$6d5aa0a0$@co.nz> Message-ID: but its what the national commander wants.. > From: kiwis1@slingshot.co.nz > To: vollynet@vollynet.org.nz > Subject: RE: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report > Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 23:56:52 +1300 > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks Allan. > > This is one of the worst parts of the restructure. > > Replacing the excellent Arapawa model of tailored paid part time help from locals helping their own brigade, with the worst model of full time VSOs who can respond to calls, perform AM and FireComms roles, appear in the media instead of the local officers in charge, and whatever else they like. > > It's actually the paper and computer work help that's needed, as these guys said. > > It must be a lot cheaper to pay some locals for a few hours admin work each per week, compared to all the expense of a salary (+ overtime?),_utes, fuel, cellphones, having offices, gear and stores, uniforms, training, conference attendance etc. > > How many VSOs will be at the UFBA conference for example? > > Put that money into local paid brigade help. > > In smaller places being paid for a few hours could make the difference to having another operational member, or getting fire risk reduction work done. > > The other big dumb idea is to hack the expert fire safety staff numbers (especially FAIPs) and replace them with untrained VSOs. Incredible! > > Watch the fire death and arsonist numbers increase. > > > Stephen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz [mailto:vollynet-bounces@vollynet.org.nz] On Behalf Of Allan Hoult > Sent: Friday, 21 October 2011 11:24 p.m. > To: VollyNet > Subject: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/5828739/Staff-cut-plan-a-real-worry-for-fire-chiefs > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From tony at sutorius.org Sat Oct 22 08:07:17 2011 From: tony at sutorius.org (Tony Sutorius) Date: Sat Oct 22 08:07:21 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Tsunami warning after 7.3 quake Message-ID: <6D6B059C-F65C-4691-B0AF-9F9E750A3630@sutorius.org> http://www.stuff.co.nz/5834076/Tsunami-warning-after-7-3-quake From tony at sutorius.org Sat Oct 22 08:18:53 2011 From: tony at sutorius.org (Tony Sutorius) Date: Sat Oct 22 08:18:57 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Tsunami warning after 7.3 quake In-Reply-To: <6D6B059C-F65C-4691-B0AF-9F9E750A3630@sutorius.org> References: <6D6B059C-F65C-4691-B0AF-9F9E750A3630@sutorius.org> Message-ID: <9A87E39F-C581-4D03-BBC6-27F5E6ECE530@sutorius.org> MCDEM are assessing risk. The Kermadec epicenter is north north east of NZ. Rolling updates here:- http://www.civildefence.govt.nz/ T. On 22/10/2011, at 8:07, Tony Sutorius wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.stuff.co.nz/5834076/Tsunami-warning-after-7-3-quake > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From tony at sutorius.org Sat Oct 22 08:23:11 2011 From: tony at sutorius.org (Tony Sutorius) Date: Sat Oct 22 08:23:14 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Tsunami warning after 7.3 quake In-Reply-To: <9A87E39F-C581-4D03-BBC6-27F5E6ECE530@sutorius.org> References: <6D6B059C-F65C-4691-B0AF-9F9E750A3630@sutorius.org> <9A87E39F-C581-4D03-BBC6-27F5E6ECE530@sutorius.org> Message-ID: Threat assessment cancels tsunami warning; beware of possible strong tidal flows. T. On 22/10/2011, at 8:18, Tony Sutorius wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MCDEM are assessing risk. > > The Kermadec epicenter is north north east of NZ. > > Rolling updates here:- > > http://www.civildefence.govt.nz/ > > T. > > > On 22/10/2011, at 8:07, Tony Sutorius wrote: > >> VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >> For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> http://www.stuff.co.nz/5834076/Tsunami-warning-after-7-3-quake >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles >> >> ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >> personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From jgmarks at xtra.co.nz Sat Oct 22 08:29:56 2011 From: jgmarks at xtra.co.nz (Marks Family) Date: Sat Oct 22 08:30:14 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Tsunami warning after 7.3 quake In-Reply-To: <9A87E39F-C581-4D03-BBC6-27F5E6ECE530@sutorius.org> References: <6D6B059C-F65C-4691-B0AF-9F9E750A3630@sutorius.org> <9A87E39F-C581-4D03-BBC6-27F5E6ECE530@sutorius.org> Message-ID: <1319225396.1792.0.camel@marks-G41MT-S2P> http://www.stuff.co.nz/5834076/Tsunami-warning-cancelled-after-7-3-quake On Sat, 2011-10-22 at 08:18 +1300, Tony Sutorius wrote: > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MCDEM are assessing risk. > > The Kermadec epicenter is north north east of NZ. > > Rolling updates here:- > > http://www.civildefence.govt.nz/ > > T. > > > On 22/10/2011, at 8:07, Tony Sutorius wrote: > > > VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ > > For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > http://www.stuff.co.nz/5834076/Tsunami-warning-after-7-3-quake > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > > ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of > personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From ed at hintz.org Sat Oct 22 10:21:01 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Sat Oct 22 10:21:21 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Congrats Ed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EA1E23D.5040006@hintz.org> On 10/21/11 6:31 PM, Nilson Family wrote: > I hear there is a new Station Officer Ed Hintz, congrats Ed Cheers mate... I've actually been acting SO since Jun, pending the retirement of Sutorious the Senior... But yeah, just got made all official-like a couple weeks ago after Anton's formal retirement. Them's some awful big shoes to fill, I gotta say. :) -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From ed at hintz.org Sat Oct 22 10:22:53 2011 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund Hintz) Date: Sat Oct 22 10:22:59 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Congrats Ed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EA1E2AD.2060405@hintz.org> On 10/21/11 6:41 PM, Tristan Saunders wrote: > 2 of them? on the same day? Wot a co-inky dink! We likes the shiny impellers, precious. Yes, we does. :) -- Regards, Ed Hintz ed@hintz.org From 4kings at nettel.net.nz Sat Oct 22 20:48:37 2011 From: 4kings at nettel.net.nz (Ian & Heather King) Date: Sat Oct 22 20:49:07 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report References: <1318412116.1877.0.camel@marks-G41MT-S2P> <1319192610.19653.YahooMailNeo@web112515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Mr Saunders said the discussion was premature because no decisions have been made" - not according to the incoming National Commander who spoke at the Wgtn Prov AGM today. The decisions are made, he doesn't like the DVSA model despite advice he received to the contrary, and the final report is being written and will be out in 9 days time. Obviously Mr Baxter hasn't told Mr Saunders? ----- Original Message ----- From: Allan Hoult To: VollyNet Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/5828739/Staff-cut-plan-a-real-worry-for-fire-chiefs ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise From allanhoult at yahoo.com.au Sat Oct 22 20:57:51 2011 From: allanhoult at yahoo.com.au (Allan Hoult) Date: Sat Oct 22 20:58:05 2011 Subject: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report In-Reply-To: References: <1318412116.1877.0.camel@marks-G41MT-S2P> <1319192610.19653.YahooMailNeo@web112515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1319270271.63077.YahooMailNeo@web112508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> And also given the fact that at least two contracts havent been renewed in the last week, one an admin assistant and the other a vso role. So much for consultation and submissions I guess From: Ian & Heather King <4kings@nettel.net.nz> To: Allan Hoult ; VollyNet Sent: Saturday, 22 October 2011 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report ? "Mr Saunders said the discussion was premature because no decisions have been made" - not according to the incoming National Commander who spoke at the Wgtn Prov AGM today. The decisions are made, he doesn't like the DVSA model despite advice he received to the contrary, and the final report is being written and will be out in 9 days time. Obviously Mr Baxter hasn't told Mr Saunders? ----- Original Message ----- >From: Allan Hoult >To: VollyNet >Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 11:23 PM >Subject: [VollyNet] Nelson Mail report > >VOLLYNET : OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING IN NZ >For information and help see www.vollynet.org.nz >---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/5828739/Staff-cut-plan-a-real-worry-for-fire-chiefs > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >MEET THE COMMUNITY! Visit www.vollynet.org.nz/profiles > >ALL posts to VollyNet should be considered statements of >personal opinion only unless specifically stated otherwise >